Small plane take off mishap NT

[kasper]

Doesn't really matter; if he taxied up to the pumps he's gone anyway.

And why is that? just from google earth its clear that the petrol pumps are on a slip road off the highway and not on the actual roadway at all - its a private road with public access so why 'gone anyway' just for taxiing around from the airstrip out the back?

 

 

[turboplanner]

And why is that? just from google earth its clear that the petrol pumps are on a slip road off the highway and not on the actual roadway at all - its a private road with public access so why 'gone anyway' just for taxiing around from the airstrip out the back?

public access requires a driver's licence and a roadworthy car.

 

 

[kasper]

public access requires a driver's licence and a roadworthy car.

Nope. Once you are off the public roadway it's a private road on private property - not required to be a registered car or a licences driver.

So long as you do not go out onto the highway because that would be naughty.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Nope. Once you are off the public roadway it's a private road on private property - not required to be a registered car or a licences driver.So long as you do not go out onto the highway because that would be naughty.

I've got first hand experience; I was booked for riding an unregistered motor cycle ON the refuelling pad of a Service Station in South Australia.

The cop said "you probably thought you were OK not encroaching on the road, but unless there's a gate or similar restriction, if the area can be accessed by the public it has the same status as the road."

 

NT usually follows SA law.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Doesn't really matter; if he taxied up to the pumps he's gone anyway.

If....???

 

This website banner makes for an interesting discussion then -

 

http://ycem.com.au/wp/?cat=13

 

Kaz

 

 

[turboplanner]

If....???This website banner makes for an interesting discussion then -

 

http://ycem.com.au/wp/?cat=13

 

Kaz

Anthony Philip Whiteway, who parked his aircraft in front of a Newman (WA) pub, plead guilty to committing an act likely to endanger the life health or safety of a person.

He was fined $5,000.00 plus court and towage costs.

 

 

[facthunter]

Access to many "common" bowsers on the Nullarbor seems normal when last I crossed. These remote areas will come to a standstill if such rules apply and are enforced to the letter of the law. Will people endanger themselves in tiger country by never considering using a surfaced road if they inspect it and carry out reasonable checks if they have a malfunctioning engine or are becoming ill? I hope not. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Access to many "common" bowsers on the Nullarbor seems normal when last I crossed. These remote areas will come to a standstill if such rules apply and are enforced to the letter of the law. Will people endanger themselves in tiger country by never considering using a surfaced road if they inspect it and carry out reasonable checks if they have a malfunctioning engine or are becoming ill? I hope not. Nev

You would know that an emergency is a vastly different scenario than advertising a flyaway showing aircraft parked in front of a pub, or breezing in amongst the patrons of a Roadhouse with prop spinning where children can be jumping out of cars after a long drive.

 

 

[onetrack]

You would know that an emergency is a vastly different scenario than advertising a flyaway showing aircraft parked in front of a pub, or breezing in amongst the patrons of a Roadhouse with prop spinning where children can be jumping out of cars after a long drive

Spot on. I did previously mention "potential conflict" where aircraft and road traffic can intermingle, without adequate traffic/personnel controls.

The copper was correct and knew the law. Any area that is "open to the public to access" and which they can drive their vehicles on, can be classed as a "road", and State Road Traffic law can then be applicable.

 

You only find out about these curiosities of the law after there has been an accident and a fatality or fatalities.

 

Witness the several events where young people sleeping in swags were run over and killed by careless and drunken drivers at B&S Balls. Those events were held either in "private" paddocks or ovals.

 

The inquest deemed those areas "public" and "road", when they were opened to the public by advertising the event. People have also been killed the same way at campsites. The same law applies.

 

Unfortunately, because of the carelessness and stupidity of a few, the rest of us get penalised. B&S Balls are virtually extinct, the PL insurance premiums skyrocketed after the deaths and associated claims.

 

 

[kasper]

Spot on. I did previously mention "potential conflict" where aircraft and road traffic can intermingle, without adequate traffic/personnel controls.The copper was correct and knew the law. Any area that is "open to the public to access" and which they can drive their vehicles on, can be classed as a "road", and State Road Traffic law can then be applicable.

 

You only find out about these curiosities of the law after there has been an accident and a fatality or fatalities.

 

Witness the several events where young people sleeping in swags were run over and killed by careless and drunken drivers at B&S Balls. Those events were held either in "private" paddocks or ovals.

 

The inquest deemed those areas "public" and "road", when they were opened to the public by advertising the event. People have also been killed the same way at campsites. The same law applies.

 

Unfortunately, because of the carelessness and stupidity of a few, the rest of us get penalised. B&S Balls are virtually extinct, the PL insurance premiums skyrocketed after the deaths and associated claims.

Abandon all hope then as every thing is levelled up. The Oaks airfield may as well shut up shop as the access road runs between the hangars and the strip ... and you cross it regularly. Unfenced roads must also by that logic mean all vehicles must be registered and drivers licences - thanks for that here in nsw with quad bikes unregisterable.

Reality and reasonableness exit room arm in arm shaking their heads in frustration.

 

 

[facthunter]

A lot of the ADL Darwin road is not fenced and some of the disused ex WW2 strips are able to be accessed from the road, so are they ruled out too? I'm never advocating being extreme or not doing all checks for conflicting traffic as you would at any point entering a runway or taxiway but breaking the law can be such a formidable issue for some, that a more dangerous choice might be made for fear of impending prosecution. Like if you are in an area that the surface is very rocky the road becomes an obvious best choice as a landing area. It's also where you might reasonably expect assistance becoming available if an upset happens. If you go head on with a truck or B double it's not done well, or advised but from any reasonable height the visibility is OK for many Kms which should ensure a safe arrival and get off the edge safely result. Survive and explain to the enforcers later is the best decision. Nev

 

 

[onetrack]

Abandon all hope then as every thing is levelled up. The Oaks airfield may as well shut up shop as the access road runs between the hangars and the strip ... and you cross it regularly. Unfenced roads must also by that logic mean all vehicles must be registered and drivers licences - thanks for that here in nsw with quad bikes unregisterable.Reality and reasonableness exit room arm in arm shaking their heads in frustration.

Unfortunately, we all have to deal with the law as it's administered - which is not necessarily always sensible - and often-times, neither is it justice.Your defence to your actions is "reasonable care", and your exercise of your "duty of care" (to others who may be seriously impacted by your actions).

"Reasonable care" is a minefield, and if you read many judges legal decisions, you will find they spend lengthy time defining "reasonable care". "Reasonable care" is defined as care taken by any "reasonable" person, as regards "foreseeable events".

 

"Foreseeable events", of course, are related to your experience, training and maturity. The first two are easily improved, the third is generally related to age.

 

Lack of maturity and experience is the reason you don't let 6 yr olds ride 600cc quadbikes capable of 120kmh - or let them drive anything that requires recognition of impending danger, and the ability to produce the appropriate response.

 

 

[red750]

Speaking of what constitutes a road, the drive-through at a fast food outlet is a road, so you can be booked for talking on your mobile phone while waiting for your burger and fries.

 

 

[djpacro]

Pilot who used helicopter for a Maccas run insists he got permission to land[/url]

[turboplanner]

Abandon all hope then as every thing is levelled up. The Oaks airfield may as well shut up shop as the access road runs between the hangars and the strip ... and you cross it regularly. Unfenced roads must also by that logic mean all vehicles must be registered and drivers licences - thanks for that here in nsw with quad bikes unregisterable. Reality and reasonableness exit room arm in arm shaking their heads in frustration.

Two of us have told you what the law is; following it is up to you.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Before you get too carried away about the definition of a "road" which in itself is a bit involved, remember to check "where" the offence can be committed. eg. Drink driving can be committed on a road OR elsewhere - read "elsewhere then on a road".

 

There is no shortcut to reading the Act with reference to a particular offence and where it can be committed.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

It's just as likely that the report was completely wrong and he made an emergency landing on the airstrip.

 

 

[turboplanner]

It's just as likely that the report was completely wrong and he made an emergency landing on the airstrip.

He may not even have been in the NT, could have been taxying in Hobart.

 

 

[onetrack]

Well, the ABC is normally a fairly reliable source of information, without the hype of many of the commercial news sites.

 

We know that a photo is available, of a small aircraft with a broken wing, with a Landcruiser parked behind it, on a road verge, that shows vegetation very likely to be of a major rural road in the dry interior of Australia.

 

There appears to a light chain attached to the rear of the aircraft fuselage, which indicates it may have been towed to that position.

 

This photo is reputed to belong to one Adrian Wallace and was posted on Farcebook. I guess those who subscribe to Farcebook (I don't) could chase up the right Adrian Wallace and glean the precise details.

 

The NT police advised the ABC that they had received a report at 3:15PM, on the 13th June, of a small aircraft upside down on the highway at Dunmarra - and they also advised that at around 3:30PM, "the aircraft had been removed from the highway".

 

The ATSB were also advised (no doubt by the NT police), that a light aircraft "collision with terrain", had been reported at Dunmarra.

 

It appears that no ATSB case on the crash has been opened, so we can gather that the "crash" is not worthy of any ATSB investigation, because;

 

1. No-one was injured in the crash,

 

2. The aircraft was RA-Aus registered and the ATSB has left the crash investigation to RA-Aus investigators.

 

The manager of the Dunmarra Wayside Inn told the ABC, "the plane was taking off after filling up with fuel at the Wayside Inn, when it flipped onto its roof and broke a wing."

 

This is not the same as "taking off on the highway" - but no doubt, some people have interpreted what was said, as "taking off on the highway".

 

It is entirely likely the aircraft took off from the strip, then the pilot decided he needed to land again urgently due to some unreported problem, and he picked the highway as the immediate first choice of landing area, due to the urgency of the need for landing.

 

It's not likely, with the general secrecy and privacy considerations surrounding RAA-Aus-registered aircraft crashes and incidents, that we will ever find out the precise reasons for the crash, unless first-hand information is supplied.

 

 

[poteroo]

Access to many "common" bowsers on the Nullarbor seems normal when last I crossed

Refuelled with 98 PULP at both Nullarbor and Caiguna this week. I shutdown the engine before crossing the boundary between the servo block and the public access driveway. I then manually position the aircraft at the bowser. Then, after refuelling, manually shift it back onto the servos' block, and, being certain there are no gawking tourists, kids, dogs, camels, dingos,roos or wombats in the immediate vicinity - start up and move away asap. Of course, all bets are off if an overly officious Constable Plod has been having a bad day on the highway!

 

happy days,

 

 

[biggles]

It's not likely, with the general secrecy and privacy considerations surrounding RAA-Aus-registered aircraft crashes and incidents, that we will ever find out the precise reasons for the crash, unless first-hand information is supplied.

RAAus don't investigate all accidents/incidents, particularly where there are no significant injuries, unless of course the matter is of some 'public interest' .... Bob

 

 

[facthunter]

Dust devils are always a possible hazard, and they don't just affect small planes either. Nev

 

 

[onetrack]

Dust devils are always a possible hazard, and they don't just affect small planes either

Very true. Dust devils/willy-willies can be exceptionally violent. The old man worked on stations in the Murchison area in the 1930's, and he said he'd seen a willy-willy grab a windmill, with a tripod-stand frame, and it screwed the three sections of the angle-iron frame, into something close to wire rope!Seen a "mini-tornado" on the ground, in the leading edge of a violent cold front (in 1975), go through heavy timber in the Goldfields just North of Norseman, and it left a trail of destroyed trees that resembled clearing carried out by bulldozers dragging an anchor chain.

The destroyed area of timber was around 100-120 metres wide and about 800-900 metres long, and trees up to 600mm in trunk diameter were screwed off at heights of around a metre to two metres.

 

More than 40 years later, I can still point out that strip of destroyed timber, and even young people can see and identify the damaged strip, by the stunted vegetation, as compared to the surrounding area.

 

 

[bull]

public access requires a driver's licence and a roadworthy car.

Tell that to the millions of dirt bike riders who ride on public land and beaches etc lol and also on private property ie the servo forcourt and those dirt roads to the side are private property,and I,m sure he would have only taxied up to the edge of the forecourt and pushed it to the pumps anyway all legal..............

 

 

[bull]

Anthony Philip Whiteway, who parked his aircraft in front of a Newman (WA) pub, plead guilty to committing an act likely to endanger the life health or safety of a person.He was fined $5,000.00 plus court and towage costs.

Was an unairworthy aircraft with no wings that he also taxied around the town in ,,,do sum research turbohttp://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-18/man-who-taxied-plane-down-main-street-of-newman-fined/5901162 bit different scenario I think and not a real good choice to use to back up your argument ahTurbo