Light Aircraft down Near Bundaberg

[poteroo]

Cessna 310. Reckons they would be better than the old continental 0-540s.

Methinks there's a mistake here. C310s were fitted with Continental IO-470s in the early models (260HP), and then with Continental IO-520s, (285/300HP) in the final few models. As far as I know, the only 'older' Cessna model with a Lycoming 0-540 - was the C182RG, and of the later, (post 1997), Cessnas, only the C206H, and the C182S and T models with a Lycoming IO-540. happy days,

 

 

[poteroo]

I noted that inaccurate detail as well but it's all the same. What caught my attention though was a Rotax replacement for same, now I'd like to see that!...lolol

Not wrong! Maybe they are planning a C310 fitted with 4 Rotax 915s of 135HP??

 

 

[turboplanner]

Be interesting to see how these 915's go in the near future. Be nice if they could get 150-160 HP out of a larger Rotax using say 30l/hr, there is a big market in that output.

Have a look at what they're selling for Jet Skis now. Kawasaki have a 320 hp model.

 

 

[kaz3g]

We have just bought a J230D with the 4th generation engine and have done 150hrs in 5 weeks.It purrs and so smooth.

We pick up a J170D tomorrow also with the 4th generation engine.

That's piling on the hours!

 

Where are you based please?

 

Kaz

 

 

[turboplanner]

4.28 hours per day, 7 days a week for five weeks; that would be dedication.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Be interesting to see how these 915's go in the near future. Be nice if they could get 150-160 HP out of a larger Rotax using say 30l/hr, there is a big market in that output.

It is called a Lycoming O-320. Direct drive, air cooled, very simple. Put a Rotec TBI and a couple of Klaus Savier's Lightspeed ignitions on it and you'll get that. I get that even with the old Marvel Schleuber tractor carby.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

It is called a Lycoming O-320. Direct drive, air cooled, very simple. Put a Rotec TBI and a couple of Klaus Savier's Lightspeed ignitions on it and you'll get that. I get that even with the old Marvel Schleuber tractor carby.

If you want lower weight go for the ECI experimental engines with carbon oil pan etc.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Yes am aware of that having a few hrs behind them but Rotax are now very popular & I hope their range expands:-)

A new Rotax in that range is going to cost the same as a Lycoming I think. What is the point? Then there are the issues of ironing out the bugs from an unproven engine.

 

 

[facthunter]

The 912 would have to be completely redesigned from basics to up the power significantly. If this was easy it would have been done a hundred times over. A built up crank is not an asset, it's a liability. You only use it if you must. Some of the fastest road cars are diesel, which is a transformation from their original place as a long life slugger.. Reciprocating engines are designed for self destruction. Reversing cyclic loads and torsional harmonics.= fatigue and failure especially when it has to be as light weight as possible. Nev

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

The 912 would have to be completely redesigned from basics to up the power significantly. If this was easy it would have been done a hundred times over. A built up crank is not an asset, it's a liability. You only use it if you must. Some of the fastest road cars are diesel, which is a transformation from their original place as a long life slugger.. Reciprocating engines are designed for self destruction. Reversing cyclic loads and torsional harmonics.= fatigue and failure especially when it has to be as light weight as possible. Nev

Yes it is amazing that recips are as good as they are. I like turbines.

 

 

[facthunter]

Turbines....They have no character, but keep going better, and are far easier to manage in a general sense. Nev

 

 

[planesmaker]

Electric, now there's a future!

 

 

[facthunter]

Very likely, and we should be ready for that, as an organisation, for the members. Originally we used two strokes to a great extent , when we didn't fly very high and most didn't fly far. (SOME did) Those engines were used for their availability, price and good power to weight ratio . Already electric trainers are out there, and will only get better in performance. For long distance the hydrocarbon fuelled plane will be around for a while yet, and perhaps we will see some good engines of the reciprocating type produced, still. Chancy business though. After what has recently happened, would YOU put your scarce cash into a aero engine?. There is much less engine tuning repairing, servicing modifying knowledge about in the general community than there was 60 years ago Nev

 

 

[Bleve97]

We have just bought a J230D with the 4th generation engine and have done 150hrs in 5 weeks.It purrs and so smooth.

We pick up a J170D tomorrow also with the 4th generation engine.

 

4.28 hours per day, 7 days a week for five weeks; that would be dedication.

Not for a flying school, that's about right. We do similar with ours.

 

 

[facthunter]

A Six cylinder flat engine is so much more smooth than a four. There's a good reason for it too. Nev

 

 

[Heather]

Not for a flying school, that's about right. We do similar with ours.

That's 4days/week and only one of five aircraft.

 

 

[Geoff13]

A Six cylinder flat engine is so much more smooth than a four. There's a good reason for it too. Nev

Can't argue with that, the Honda Goldwing would have to be one of the smoothest engines around.

 

Certainly the smoothest bike engine that I have ever seen.

 

The fuel injected 1800 being even better than the carby 1500.

 

 

[facthunter]

Think It's pretty heavy, for aircraft. Larger geared flat 6 aero motors have dynamic counterweights to handle the torsional problems. So do 'bigger' Radial engines. If they are idled too slow, you can hear the clunking noises from the "loose" counterweights. Nev

 

 

[Mick]

So anyway, about the Jab that went down near Bundy ( wasn't that what this thread was about but drifted about 2 pages ago? ).

 

News is this aircraft has a Camit engine not a Jab engine. VH Experimental category.

I was told today that this was a Jab engine but with Camit heads on it. Failure was a piston coming apart.

 

 

[jetjr]

Interesting

 

There have been several of these now

 

Considering boh CAE and Jabiru have essentially the same cheap piston as do the new Jabiru, its a very relevant failure.

 

 

[ozbear]

InterestingThere have been several of these now

Considering boh CAE and Jabiru have essentially the same cheap piston as do the new Jabiru, its a very relevant failure.

They use to use ACL Pistons which are good quality but are expansion controlled and made for water cooled engines not sure what brand is used now .

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I wonder what "coming apart" actually meant. A seizure and the piston breaks at a ring groove? more details would be nice

 

 

[facthunter]

Running large clearances can accelerate piston failures. Long cool descents are avoided for this reason. If a top ring groove has carbon build up it can cause a seizure that may just be momentary but have the top come off then or later. The way the oil ring groove is slotted is a weakness of the design, which as pointed out, is suited for a liquid cooled engine. I'm SURE there would be better pistons available, (at more cost) The later (stiff) cylinders operate with less piston to wall clearance as they are alloy. Nev

 

 

[onetrack]

It never ceases to amaze me how manufacturers will spend big bucks designing an engine and then choose a very ordinary grade of piston. Pistons and valves are primary failure points in an IC engine.

 

Can't beat forged pistons, you don't see racers using off-the-shelf, will-do, standard pistons.

 

Do I recall right that Jabiru was using standard Holden pistons? I've blown more pistons in Holdens than in any other engine.

 

 

[jetjr]

They use to use ACL Pistons which are good quality but are expansion controlled and made for water cooled engines not sure what brand is used now .

Dont think so any more, they are a copy of a GM designed piston, altered to suit application

 

Gudgeon clip grooves and Jabiru have valve pocket done too.

 

Another attempt to reduce parts cost.

 

They are an 040 piston from common holden engine - V6?

 

Why CAE kept on this track of using cheap copies does surprise, all other parts were reverted back to high quality OEM.

 

My experience sees weights vary greatly and apparantly there has been issues with machining out of round and being redone, also the known circlip problems

 

They are a very "good value" standard unit and there are also several versions. Weights vary by 13 grams so they have to be paired up.

 

No doubt better units are available to reduce expansion differential. These are std GM design so theres high grade stuff available

 

There was mention someone was sourcing Mahle (ACL) forged pistons or similar and using them. Anyone know?

 

One example I heard of the piston appreared to break apart " explode" in operation - not pretty

 

There was mention of stress points not relieved in latest models.

 

All hearsay