RAA accident / defect reports

[johnm]

just in case some don't know - link below for RAA reports - the table can be searched

 

good stuff by RAA - thanks - very current and up to date info re the trials and tribulations of flight

 

Accident and defect summaries - RAAus

 

 

[M61A1]

Seems like an awful lot of "chaff" to to sift through to find much worthwhile. Looks a lot like people justifying positions.

 

 

[nomadpete]

I think they are doing the best they can within the very limited scope permitted under the law. If you don't like the law, (By the way I don't), write to your local member and ask them to change it.

 

 

[M61A1]

My comments had more to do with excessive reporting of useless information, very military style.

 

I have seen military reports where pilots have reported "almost near miss", as in we were well separated, but if we hadn't seen each other, we might have actually i got close enough to have to avoid being near each other.

 

 

[djpacro]

Seems to me that only a fraction of airproxes are reported.

 

 

 

[Love to fly]

Seems to me that only a fraction of airproxes are reported.[ATTACH]50902[/ATTACH]

Geech

 

 

[turboplanner]

An amazing report on the 13/6/2017 Dumara incident.

 

 

[onetrack]

These summaries are a good start, and provide adequate information, and a source of education. It's far better to have this, than to have the almost-total lack of information on accidents and incidents, as was previously the case.

 

The 13/06/2017 Dunmarra crash summary does appear to verify the pilot was using the highway, rather than the airstrip for takeoff. I'd have to guess there's going to be a "please explain" situation coming for him.

 

 

[johnm]

I think the data is very useful - you can search type of plane - engine etc

 

Of course as said it is arecord of reported instances - how many others are happening and not being reported ? ............ my guess would be probably about the same again

 

I'd like to see in the data age and hours toal for pilot (poliitical party and race probably not relevant)

 

Pilot age and total hours could be good data

 

 

[Yenn]

I know of some that have not been reported, but it is a good place to look and learn what is happening. the sad thing is that some pilots don't want to be seen to be doing silly things, so they keep quiet.

 

I have reported there and was a bit upset when RAAus accused me if not complying with an AD. They did eventually amend the error, but the fact that they accused me made it obvious that they did not understand what i was reporting or what happened.

 

 

[Stearman]

I know of some that have not been reported, but it is a good place to look and learn what is happening. the sad thing is that some pilots don't want to be seen to be doing silly things, so they keep quiet.

I agree. It is not good that incidents go unreported.

 

I know of an incident where an aircraft caught & ripped off it's tailwheel on the top wire of a fence as it came in to land. I can't find a report of that on the RAAus site. I wonder if it was recorded in the aircraft maintenance log too?

 

 

[M61A1]

An amazing report on the 13/6/2017 Dumara incident.

Can I assume that you're taking the p1ss? there is no useful information there.

 

These summaries are a good start, and provide adequate information, and a source of education. It's far better to have this, than to have the almost-total lack of information on accidents and incidents, as was previously the case.The 13/06/2017 Dunmarra crash summary does appear to verify the pilot was using the highway, rather than the airstrip for takeoff. I'd have to guess there's going to be a "please explain" situation coming for him.

Unless you're reading something different, I can't see where it says the pilot was on a road. The summary makes no mention of a road or a strip.

I am not against reporting accidents, incidents and defects, but just reporting anything that happens is a farce. The Jab with a loose inspection flap is not a defect, it's a maintenance issue and should have been detected on a pre-flight.

 

A precautionary landing without incident is is not an incident.

 

What use is it to report that "The pilot lost control of the aircraft whilst on final with a 10kt crosswind"? (that's the whole summary BTW), and that's just on the first page. And yes, I've diligently read through most of it weeks ago, and was left just shaking my head at what we've become.

 

I suspect that for a lot on internet forums it's just a nice dose of schadenfreude to read about what someone else did. Why else would someone be upset that they couldn't read about someone else removing a tailwheel on a fence, and what is there to learn from such an event?

 

 

[johnm]

if I derive any masochistic pleasure from the reports ............................. I'll go to the confessional

 

otherwise I'll treat them as .............................. useful information (as best as can be had)

 

 

[M61A1]

To elaborate, While they can establish patterns of outcomes, the root causes are still unknown. The Human Factors thing is supposed to dig deeper than "pilot error", not just call it something different. Until the completely understand the decision making process in each event, they haven't found out why it was occurred. It's not enough to simply say that a pilot broke rule X., they need to know why, and many times although rules may have been broken, that may not have been a causal factor.

 

 

[gandalph]

The Jab with a loose inspection flap is not a defect, it's a maintenance issue and should have been detected on a pre-flight.

It could be a maintenance issue, in which case I'd agree that the "defect" is not with the aircraft but with the maintainer, or it could be the result of a design flaw. In that case it's certainly a defect and needs to be reported.

 

Like most things in life it depends largely on context.

 

 

[M61A1]

It could be a maintenance issue, in which case I'd agree that the "defect" is not with the aircraft but with the maintainer, or it could be the result of a design flaw. In that case it's certainly a defect and needs to be reported. Like most things in life it depends largely on context.

Rivets do not just become "loose" without some prior indication (structural overload excepted). I would like to believe that our aviators are switched on enough to notice the loose state of the oil inspection door when opened on a pre-flight, or is it likely the the door hasn't been opened for some time? Perhaps the owner/maintainer should also consider checking vibration levels.

Either way, this issue is way deeper than a hatch falling off.

 

 

[gandalph]

Rivets do not just become "loose" without some prior indication (structural overload excepted). I would like to believe that our aviators are switched on enough to notice the loose state of the oil inspection door when opened on a pre-flight, or is it likely the the door hasn't been opened for some time? Perhaps the owner/maintainer should also consider checking vibration levels.Either way, this issue is way deeper than a hatch falling off.

Agreed. I must confess that I was responding in general about what might or might not be considered a defect and not specifically to the matter you mentioned in your post. I should have made that clearer when I responded. My bad!

 

 

 

[frank marriott]

When you have Katie employed as a "safety manager" (+assistant) you have to generate paperwork/stats etc to justify the wages

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Anyone who has worked with OHS will know that it is the incident and near miss reports that enable improvement, not the intensive investigation of each unique accident. I think RAA is doing a good job with this.

 

 

[M61A1]

Anyone who has worked with OHS will know that it is the incident and near miss reports that enable improvement, not the intensive investigation of each unique accident. I think RAA is doing a good job with this.

I have been working alongside OH&S for a lot of years now, and the only real improvement I have seen is in the number of people employed in OH&S and the number of new rules they make. And by "improvement" I meant they only become more numerous. Accidents seem to remain at their usual low numbers regardless.

 

 

[REastwood]

OH&S has prevented a lot of accidents: mainly certain people getting accidentally sued (because they were seen to be "doing something") and I suspect a lot of workers have lost their jobs due to the rapid increase in the cost of building anything these days, so therefore accidents have been prevented. Remember empty workplaces are safe workplaces.

 

 

[facthunter]

Review of accident and near accidents can be very positive in preventing, similar events, treated properly. You learn by mistakes very well but it's safer to learn by other's mistakes. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself. If you think they only happen to other people you might be mistaken. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

OH&S has prevented a lot of accidents: mainly certain people getting accidentally sued (because they were seen to be "doing something") and I suspect a lot of workers have lost their jobs due to the rapid increase in the cost of building anything these days, so therefore accidents have been prevented. Remember empty workplaces are safe workplaces.

Total Labour force April 2005: 9,934,700 - May 2017: 12,097.000 - Increase 21.7%

 

Unemployment: April 2005: 5.2% May 2017: 5.9% - Increase 9.6%

 

The employed are expanding faster than the unemployed.

 

 

[coljones]

Total Labour force April 2005: 9,934,700 - May 2017: 12,097.000 - Increase 21.7%Unemployment: April 2005: 5.2% May 2017: 5.9% - Increase 9.6%

The employed are expanding faster than the unemployed.

You missed the under-employed. With greater casualisation of the workforce, through no fault of their own, many people are now not able to meet their income and career expectations. It seems that wages growth is at an all-time low (but rents are going through the roof.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

It would be of great value to review the data and identify the most common accidents and the causes. Based on the findings of this review create training programmes to address the issues. These training programmes could be a multi facet approach:

 

- include in flight reviews for say a 2 year term

 

- incorporate into abinitio / conversion training

 

- appropriate online material (eg: fact sheets, case studies, videos)

 

Providing a whole lot of incident reports online is not likely to improve safety outcomes.