Light plane crashes in SA's South East

[dunlopdangler]

TB10 is a very capable aircraft with 180 hp and constant speed prop. Performance wise, similar to others in that category. Panels reflected the commercial flight training environment they were designed for and pleasant to fly with great visibility out of the back. Whether it was maintained IFR or not and whether the pilot was IFR current will come out in consequence of the investigation.

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

To fly angel flights, I think you have to be IFR rated and current. If this guy took off in the conditions that existed at the time and was not IFR rated then he would be a king of fools. Somehow I think this is not the case.

 

 

[nathan_c]

I won't speculate on the cause of the crash because I'm not qualified and making random statements like it was "medical related" with no factual basis is a bit rude to be honest, but just to clear one point up, you do not need to be IFR rated to fly an angel flight. I know some pilot sounds very well that are VFR only who have flown these recently.

 

 

[zodiacpilot]

Looks like its gone in inverted, flipped right way up, then slid backwards to stop at X-roads sign.

 

 

[Steve L]

Very sad indeed a guy doing what he loved, our hearts go out to the families. Here we go speculating again, but hopefully we will learn from this, whether it's pilot error, the weather or even SB10-152 . . . ATSB may shed some light soon.

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

Being an angel flight volunteer pilot myself.. I can confirm that at this stage there is no prequalifiction for an instrument rating. There is an emphasis by Angel flight that all pilots are to conduct their flights in accordance with regulations and within the scope of their license and current ratings.

 

 

[jamel]

No Cookies | The Advertiser

 

This really is incomprehensible ! I admire those who carry out this service for those in the bush , but the poor husband and siblings left behind , net alone those whose lives were cut short trusting the ability of someone in a position of responsibility. RIP

 

 

[fly_tornado]

at 78, you would think he would know better

 

 

[Teckair]

This is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last sadly. The big question is why? We all know not to do it but it still happens maybe he felt pressure to carry on in the circumstances.

 

 

[PapaFox]

The flight from Murray Bridge to Mt Gambier that morning doesn't paint a nice picture either. From FR24, the last 25 minutes were all below 900', dropping down to 600' at times before doing somewhat of a circling approach (3 full orbits) at 200'. After that, airborne again 15 minutes later...

 

 

[turboplanner]

Pilot ‘wasn’t licensed to fly in fog’

[Downunder]

The flight from Murray Bridge to Mt Gambier that morning doesn't paint a nice picture either. From FR24, the last 25 minutes were all below 900', dropping down to 600' at times before doing somewhat of a circling approach (3 full orbits) at 200'. After that, airborne again 15 minutes later...

After all that..... he still took off....

 

The mind boggles...

 

 

[Happyflyer]

The flight from Murray Bridge to Mt Gambier that morning doesn't paint a nice picture either. From FR24, the last 25 minutes were all below 900', dropping down to 600' at times before doing somewhat of a circling approach (3 full orbits) at 200'. After that, airborne again 15 minutes later...

If you follow the track, it shows the aircraft descending to 500' over the city of Mt Gambier. I assume all of these heights are GPS derived and show height above sea level, so may have been even less agl. If these are confirmed by on board data it will paint a very sad picture for Angel Flight, which will be tainted despite their wonderful work.

 

 

[onetrack]

A rather ominous comment from a long-time friend of the pilot, who is in the car dealership industry, the same as the pilot.

 

The pilot didn't take up flying until he was in his early 70's, and it would be interesting to see how many hours he'd accumulated.

 

Mt Gambier Holden dealer Peter Roberts, who knew Mr Gilbert for 45 years, said he was “always having a crack” and his enthusiasm and passion would be sadly missed.

He said the former car dealer was “out there, passionate about the things in his life and always outspoken” during their lengthy relationship.

 

“He was certainly an icon in the car industry,” he said.

 

Mr Roberts said he had been worried when Mr Gilbert turned to flying in his 70s, but his long-time friend had shrugged it off.

 

“He said he was never too old. But without beating around the bush, I thought if he was ever going to go this is the way he’d go,” he said.

I read into that comment, that the pilot was a risk-taker in every facet of his personal and business life. I hope the inference I gained is wrong.

 

 

[jamel]

I read into that comment, that the pilot was a risk-taker in every facet of his personal and business life. I hope the inference I gained is wrong.

The flight path on the way there would suggest you are correct. However it is unfathomable how you could expose others to such risk

 

 

[onetrack]

However it is unfathomable how you could expose others to such risk

"Get-there-itis" has been behind many an air disaster, and killed a lot of innocent people. A time deadline is a strict deadline to many, leading to very bad decisions.

 

 

[alf jessup]

The flight path on the way there would suggest you are correct. However it is unfathomable how you could expose others to such risk

Well Jamel

In people's eyes it always happens to someone else

 

Problem is your surname can change to someone else quite easily when you push the boundaries

 

I'm guessing his intentions were good but his excecution was not and now families are destroyed

 

At the end of the day no matter the outcome or the actual cause he probably shouldn't have been there in those conditions

 

 

[jamel]

The flight from Murray Bridge to Mt Gambier that morning doesn't paint a nice picture either. From FR24, the last 25 minutes were all below 900', dropping down to 600' at times before doing somewhat of a circling approach (3 full orbits) at 200'. After that, airborne again 15 minutes later...

Well Alf

If that isn't enough to make someone park up , what is ?

 

 

[alf jessup]

Well AlfIf that isn't enough to make someone park up , what is ?

Just surmising because he got it ok in marginal conditions so getting out will be just as easy may have been the mindset at the time, but history has just shown that was not the case

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

The pressure of an arrangement may have caused the pilot to take off when he probably knew he should not have.

 

It's the hardest thing of all to disappoint your passengers by cancelling or delaying a flight when they ( the passengers ) don't know enough to see the danger. Those angel flights come with additional pressure because of a medical appointment.

 

If CASA want to do something useful, they could provide pointers aimed at helping pilots to say "no" in such circumstances. The medical profession could also help by letting patients know they will be flexible with appointment times when an aircraft is involved. CASA could help with this too.

 

 

[Kununurra]

The pressure of an arrangement may have caused the pilot to take off when he probably knew he should not have.It's the hardest thing of all to disappoint your passengers by cancelling or delaying a flight when they ( the passengers ) don't know enough to see the danger. Those angel flights come with additional pressure because of a medical appointment.

If CASA want to do something useful, they could provide pointers aimed at helping pilots to say "no" in such circumstances. The medical profession could also help by letting patients know they will be flexible with appointment times when an aircraft is involved. CASA could help with this too.

In my opinion we create our own pressure.I cant think of a bigger disappointment than the loss of life.

If CASA want to do something? Are you serious? If having your name and family/friends dragged through a traumatic event is not enough then nothing will be.

 

Society is great a blaming someone else, the buck stops with the individual.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

 

Car dealership behind McDonalds.

 

Mt Gambier business man Peter Mr Holden Roberts - the Holden, Mazda and truck dealer - has a colourful turn of phrase when describing anyone in business. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on his description of the pilot.

 

Having once met the pilot I would say he was just a tough go get it businessman - who was obviously passionate with everything he did.

 

Roberts once described me as one of the most successful businessmen in Mt. Gambier. I then put him forward for a local business Chamber of Commerce award.

 

We were neighbours for 20 years in business - his Mazda dealership has a high profile position here behind McDonalds.

 

Media would be looking for anyone who would offer a comment then headline anything said as sensationalism.

 

Just my thoughts on Roberts comments possible taken in part.

 

I really admire the work that aircraft owners and pilots do with Angel flight but obviously crashing is not the cure for any life threatening disease. Stating the obvious.

 

Thoughts are with the pilots family and the family of the Mt. Gambier passengers.

 

 

[facthunter]

IF the situation affected the judgement, that is certainly covered in Human Factors, in depth. I'm a great believer in proper human factors courses. You can get carried away with the urgency of a situation. I've done two searches both concerning water with missing people/planes and you do bend the rules a little. The "balancing act" has to be realistic or you could add another catastrophe. Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

You can get carried away with the urgency of a situation. I've done two searches both concerning water with missing people/planes and you do bend the rules a little. The "balancing act" has to be realistic or you could add another catastrophe. Nev

Not wrong there! I am a subscriber to the '3 accidents in a row' theory. Having been on a few SAR flights in PNG way back when, I experienced the same 'risk taking for the occasion' approach. There were several cases of a search aircraft itself being lost - thus consolidating the 3-in-a-row idea in pilots' minds. A truly 'professional' pilot can rein in any of these risk taking tendencies, and live to fight another day. It's damned hard to do though.

 

 

[onetrack]

One expects that any properly-constituted and professionally-carried out crash investigation would cover any poor performance, and previously-noted poor-decision-making, by a pilot.

 

However, as regularly noted, trying to pick up constant poor-decision makers amongst pilots is not a system that is easily put in place, nor easily promulgated.

 

Pilots should be regular good risk-evaluators, not risk-takers. The threat of placing pax at risk, instead of just the sole pilot, should also make a pilot moderate his risk calculations.

 

The Metroliner/Lockhart River crash is symptomatic of a pilot who was a known constant-risk-taker, not a good risk-evaluator - yet the "system" did not pick him up, with disastrous results.

 

Unfortunately, the single greatest risk-taking moderation impact on the risk-takers, is usually only when they scare themselves sh!tless, and if they survive, they usually only then, learn to reduce their risk-taking.

 

Adverse weather conditions are without doubt, one of the areas where aviation risk-takers regularly consider they have better control of adverse conditions, than they really do.