Anyone got a working Crystal Ball on our leaders in the RAA on weight increase

[SSCBD]

Has anyone got any crystal ball or current information on when we except to get the 700kg MTOW approval from RAA via CASA.

 

I am told by our prime minster of clowns, Turnbull that Australia has to be nimble and be able to rapidly change with the times. However, I have not be able to see any of his government do it, CASA nor the RAA and have not heard of any updates with timing or exactly what is to be done.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Don't hold your breath waiting...

 

 

[old man emu]

Nah, but I knew a bloke who had a glass eye.

 

His father had a crystal ball.

 

 

[Riley]

Has anyone got any crystal ball or current information on when we except to get the 700kg MTOW approval from RAA via CASA.I am told by our prime minster of clowns, Turnbull that Australia has to be nimble and be able to rapidly change with the times. However, I have not be able to see any of his government do it, CASA nor the RAA and have not heard of any updates with timing or exactly what is to be done.

At the RAA Q & A evening at Bindoon airfield attended by the RAA CEO and Gen Mgr (Mssrs Linke & Monk) a couple of weeks ago we were advised that CTA access has been the main push by RAA to CASA and it was hoped that it would be ratified by year-end. We were also told by the higher paid help that the weight increase application would sit on RAA's back burner until the CTA access was resolved. Based on the CTA treadmill to date, if you're a lottery ticket believer, don't buy a weight increase ticket till well into next year.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

They also said the RAAus training officer had been working for the organisation for 8 months, well she actually started 20 months ago.

 

Airspace approval is a no brainer - RAAus insist on the same privileges as gliders and private hot air balloon operators. (ie- no requirement to hold a GA licence and have self certified medical - as per RAAus ops). The Civil Aviation Act requires the authority to treat all airspace users without discrimination. The airspace restrictions make no sense anyway, an aircraft / pilot who cannot operate from a controlled aerodrome can operate at the same aerodrome the minute the tower closes. Does this mean Class G airspace is safer than C or D?

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

There's three weight increases with CASA. RAA have been promised 750kg, ELAAA have asked for 760kg and 1,500kg is the ultimate (for now). RAA are putting 1,500kg on the back burner because of the huge questions on maintenance, registration etc (and I'm not sure they really want it) and going for CTA first. For ELAAA it will bring them a larger clientele in fixed wing and non commercial helicopters. I suspect CASA would love to shuffle the responsibility for RPL aircraft to someone else and pay them minimal compensation.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Airspace approval is a no brainer

But will take 6 months anyway.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

But will take 6 months anyway.

The current approach is very unlikely to see a suitable result. CASA will expect a class 2 medical or RAMPC and a whole lot of unreasonable training.

The precedent has been set - simply apply the same limitations as those imposed on the glider and balloon pilots. Amend CAO 95.10/95.55, the limitations imposed are a hangover from the AUF when they were operating Skycraft Scouts etc.

 

At the very least RAAus should ask why the difference in regulations between RAAOs.

 

For example: a Sinus registered by Gliding Australia can be flown by a pilot into class C and D airspace / airports holding only a Gliding Certificate and self certified medical. The pilot of the same aircraft registered under RAAus needs to hold a GA licence, current flight review and medical in addition to their RAAus pilot certificate to operate into controlled airspace / airports. Why the difference??!!

 

 

[nathan_c]

The current approach is very unlikely to see a suitable result. CASA will expect a class 2 medical or RAMPC and a whole lot of unreasonable training.The precedent has been set - simply apply the same limitations as those imposed on the glider and balloon pilots. Amend CAO 95.10/95.55, the limitations imposed are a hangover from the AUF when they were operating Skycraft Scouts etc.

At the very least RAAus should ask why the difference in regulations between RAAOs.

 

For example: a Sinus registered by Gliding Australia can be flown by a pilot into class C and D airspace / airports holding only a Gliding Certificate and self certified medical. The pilot of the same aircraft registered under RAAus needs to hold a GA licence, current flight review and medical in addition to their RAAus pilot certificate to operate into controlled airspace / airports. Why the difference??!!

Personally I believe any training required should be of the standard required for someone to achieve a RPL CTA endorsment (yes the GA standard), or a PPL standard (which should be the same thing as the RPL standard) and I dont believe that this is an unreasonable expectation of training at all.

 

CTA isnt a joke or something that you can just 'do an hour and you'll be right' or get a buddy to just come in and do a quick rating on. In my opinion if Ra Aus is to be granted CTA access, there needs to be a clearly defined, and comprehensive syllabus and training program to bring pilots up to the required standard for both flying procedures and radio calls. Unfortunately for some Ra Aus pilots out there I have come across, this could be an exceptional amount of training required and possibly far more then any minimum that may be set or that they think they require.

 

As for GFA access to CTA, you can not fly a glider (motor or not) into CTA based purely off a basic gliding certificate. There is a GFA controlled airspace endorsement required to allow this access, and unsurprisingly has a training syllabus to go along with it.

 

 

[ian00798]

The airspace restrictions make no sense anyway, an aircraft / pilot who cannot operate from a controlled aerodrome can operate at the same aerodrome the minute the tower closes. Does this mean Class G airspace is safer than C or D?

Really?? I suspect it's got something to do with the fact that once the tower closes it becomes class G airspace and therefore the controlled airspace procedures, equipment requirements etc no longer apply.

 

Either do controlled airspace properly or stay out of it. It isn't a quickie endorsement that can be done in an hour or so by a mate, and frankly the standard of radio calls by some RA operators is nothing short of dismal. Until the required standard is reached you should not be in a high density environment.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Really?? I suspect it's got something to do with the fact that once the tower closes it becomes class G airspace and therefore the controlled airspace procedures, equipment requirements etc no longer apply.Either do controlled airspace properly or stay out of it. It isn't a quickie endorsement that can be done in an hour or so by a mate, and frankly the standard of radio calls by some RA operators is nothing short of dismal. Until the required standard is reached you should not be in a high density environment.

The equipment requirements for Class D / G areodromes are the same. An RAAus pilot trained at a Class D aerodrome is only permitted to fly as PIC until they gain their RPC. The only way they can operate as PIC of an RAAus registered aeroplane on their RPC is to obtain an RPL, maintain a GA flight review and RAMPC or higher medical, why impose these restrictions?

The standard of RT from both RAAus and GA operators could do with improvement, particularly in G airspace. The trend seems to be constant talk, several inbound calls, every leg of the circuit, taxiing, entering the runway, starting the takeoff roll, exiting the runway. Put 6 or so aircraft in the circuit and there's no airtime to make the recommended calls.

 

 

[Riley]

The current approach is very unlikely to see a suitable result. CASA will expect a class 2 medical or RAMPC and a whole lot of unreasonable training.The precedent has been set - simply apply the same limitations as those imposed on the glider and balloon pilots. Amend CAO 95.10/95.55, the limitations imposed are a hangover from the AUF when they were operating Skycraft Scouts etc.

At the very least RAAus should ask why the difference in regulations between RAAOs.

 

For example: a Sinus registered by Gliding Australia can be flown by a pilot into class C and D airspace / airports holding only a Gliding Certificate and self certified medical. The pilot of the same aircraft registered under RAAus needs to hold a GA licence, current flight review and medical in addition to their RAAus pilot certificate to operate into controlled airspace / airports. Why the difference??!!

Because CASA is CASA "and we can!"

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Because CASA is CASA "and we can!"

Not according to the Civil Aviation Act.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

As for GFA access to CTA, you can not fly a glider (motor or not) into CTA based purely off a basic gliding certificate. There is a GFA controlled airspace endorsement required to allow this access, and unsurprisingly has a training syllabus to go along with it.

Yes, I've read the "GFA" syllabus and it's not very detailed. I'm a GA Grade 1 (was an ATO) and an RAAus Senior Instructor, I train in both systems and apply the same standard to both.

I fail to see why pilots I train in an aeroplane with numbers instead of letters cannot fly in the airspace or at least the aerodrome they learnt to fly at.

 

Here's a copy of the detailed Gliding Australia Flight Training Syllabus for controlled airspace straight from their manual of standards:

 

2. Flight training and Radio Requirements

 

(Circle applicable class of airspace)

 

(a) Departure Procedures D/C

 

(b) Circuit Operations. D/C

 

© ArrivalProcedures. D/C

 

(d) Transit Procedures. D/C

 

 

[ian00798]

The equipment requirements for Class D / G areodromes are the same

No they're not. You may wish to pull out those books again and check your material on that one.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

No they're not. You may wish to pull out those books again and check your material on that one.

Yes they are, an aerodrome operating as both Class D and G have the same equipment requirements.

Maybe you could educate me as to the specific differences?

 

 

[ian00798]

Well for number one the altimeter needs to be calibrated by an authorised LAME, not required for class G but mandated for class D

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Well for number one the altimeter needs to be calibrated by an authorised LAME, not required for class G but mandated for class D

That's a maintenance requirement, not equipment.

 

 

[ian00798]

That may be, but it is nevertheless something required for class d that isn't required for class G. And then in class C you will also require a transponder, which is not always required in G

 

 

[Roundsounds]

No they're not. You may wish to pull out those books again and check your material on that one.

I stand by my statement.

 

 

[ian00798]

Of course you do. Nobody else could possibly have any idea of what they are talking about.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Of course you do. Nobody else could possibly have any idea of what they are talking about.

Healthy debate is a good thing in aviation matters, it promotes thought and ultimately safety. It's a shame you've adopted that attitude.

 

 

[coljones]

The current approach is very unlikely to see a suitable result. CASA will expect a class 2 medical or RAMPC and a whole lot of unreasonable training.The precedent has been set - simply apply the same limitations as those imposed on the glider and balloon pilots. Amend CAO 95.10/95.55, the limitations imposed are a hangover from the AUF when they were operating Skycraft Scouts etc.

At the very least RAAus should ask why the difference in regulations between RAAOs.

 

For example: a Sinus registered by Gliding Australia can be flown by a pilot into class C and D airspace / airports holding only a Gliding Certificate and self certified medical. The pilot of the same aircraft registered under RAAus needs to hold a GA licence, current flight review and medical in addition to their RAAus pilot certificate to operate into controlled airspace / airports. Why the difference??!!

What is the current approach?

 

 

[coljones]

Well for number one the altimeter needs to be calibrated by an authorised LAME, not required for class G but mandated for class D

Nope!!

 

 

[Roundsounds]

What is the current approach?

Trying to play the CASA game of hit the moving target, rather than levelling the playing field by insisting on the same rules as comparable RAAOs.