Nano or Micro

[Guest Warren Hardy]

I am just starting out and got the bug by seeing a Nano flying around our area. I live at the northern end of the Whitsundays. (Hydeaway Bay). After looking around a bit I feel that a micro is too big a machine for me. My partner is not interested but I am keen to go flying around the district in a single seater. Seems more thrilling than the labours and expense of fishing trips. A new private airport is to be established just nearby.

 

Are Nano's as safe as Micro's? What are the pros and cons, your experiences?

 

Warren

 

 

[Brett]

I have flown both ,,an Airborne microlight and a moyes max hang glider with an explorer harness. Don't plan on going to far with a hang glider setup ( unless you have a sympathetic parter for ground support) :) but for buzzing up and down the general take off vicinity I found it great..A lot lighter weight wise to set up and easier to ground handle ,plus you can just about land them anywhere and so on ..But as for microlights ,,nothing beats sitting up and having a good look around and the range is greatly extended for those trips up and down the coastline. Either choice ,,,yep sure beats fishing :big_grin:

 

 

[Brett]

forgot to mention ,,if you go the nanolight way ,you would have to get a certain number of hours up hang gliding b4 going down the nano light path with a glider ...hgfa site should have the min number of hours required..but after flying for a while you would prob get a feel for it when you were ready for one ...

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Hi Warren,

 

From what I've seen and heard of Nano's, they have not enjoyed the same level of development specific to powered flight with undercarriage, as Micro's have. By this I mean that the HG wings used on Nanos don't have as much redundancy built in and the engines they use are supposedly not as developed or reliable as a Rotax447/503 which a single seater Micro would use, though these engines are apparently being discontinued by Rotax.

 

I'm a bit disapointed about the lack of single seater micro's commercially available, as I would not mind a single seater micro that I can jam into the back of a station wagon after removing the prop and possibly the rear undercarriage, which is the advantage Nano's have at the moment.

 

I have found a few commercially available single seater micros though. One is made by AirCreation in France http://www.aircreation.net/aircraft/racer.html, the other by Magic Trikes USA http://www.magictrikes.us/

 

and the other USA manufacturer http://www.flyforfun.net/dfs.htm

 

Cheers,

 

Glen

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Another thing, I'm pretty sure that if you read the HGFA Reg's, if you get a Trike license, you can fly Microlights and Tricycle undercarriage Nanolights as well.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

One is made by AirCreation in France http://www.aircreation.net/aircraft/racer.html, the other by Magic Trikes USA http://www.magictrikes.us/and the other USA manufacturer http://www.flyforfun.net/dfs.htm

The UK Authorities have recently deregulated single seat microlights so there is no for any type approval / certification for trikes or 3-axis with a MTOW of 115kg or less. This weight makes them a bit more practicable than the nano category here as they don't have to use HG wings. You still need a pilots licence of course.

 

As a result, I believe the Chaser trike has (or is going) back into production and a number of other single seat trikes are starting to appear (including the Magic you found Glen).

 

Although historically they don't sell very well, I share your enthusiasm for single seaters (I had a Chaser for a few years & wish I had kept it now). I've not flown the Racer but I've always liked the look of them & Air Creation has an Aussi dealer again now (on this forum too).

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest MundooTriker]

Hello Warren,

 

I had a nano light originally because I thought a Microlight was too expensive.. ....

 

Well, when the motor actually went it was a great relief, jump in and fly before it stops. Eventually, it just didn't any more, and it turned out to be a very expensive 18hrs of flying. I started out doing a HG with the view of a motorised endorsment as it seemed cheaper than a full microlight license. Sounds great in theory but in hindsight I most strongly wish I had just gone for the trike in the first place. Knowing what I know now, in the interests of personal safety, of both yourself and anyone else in the sky or underneath I would not consider taking to the skies in a nanolight without a proper microlight license.

 

Another thing about nanolights is that unless you have someone else that can fly that slow, it gets a bit lonely and I have found myself that one of the most rewarding aspects to flying is sharing it with others, especially after the inital romantic novelty of flying wears off (and I LOVE flying).

 

When I was looking a few years ago a quality 2nd hand nano was between $8-$10k.

 

You can get a 2nd hand Airborne Redback from around $14k - $18k. Over a 10yr period there is NO comparison about the flying conditions you can enjoy and share with others.

 

As well as that trikes are generally engineered for the job.

 

If you do pursue a nano, then contact the HG wing manufacturer (in writing) and ask if they will approve the wing/motor combination. If they don't then you should feel queasy as it will be your butt hanging from their wing.

 

I apologise if this sounds a bit negative, as it is not intended, but making the decision to upgrade from nano to proper microlight was the right decision for me.

 

Got to get to work.

 

Andrew

 

 

[Guest Warren Hardy]

Thanks for replies

 

Thanks for all your replies. I checked out the web sites you posted Glen. The more I research the more fascinating it gets. There are many options. I will try and contact the Air Creation dealer to get some info, thanks John. Andrew your experiences are invaluable. Now I am leaning toward a Micro. If the planned airstrip near us (Hydeaway Bay) does not go ahead I suppose I will have to look at a trailable trike. First I will try and seek out a trainer near Mackay/Whitsunday area. Have a little time off over xmas so I will look for a flight in two seater. Appreciate further comments.

 

Warren

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

A listing of RAA schools is at http://www.auf.asn.au/docs/ops/ftf_list.pdf

 

And for HGFA schools try http://www.hgfa.asn.au/schools/schools.htm

 

Good Luck & Enjoy !

 

John

 

 

[bushpilot]

Warren,

 

I've also owned both - 2 nanos and micro. (& a Piper Colt - GA).

 

I fly the microlight trike at present, having crashed my nano 4 years ago. Problem was a large hang-glider (Moyes 'topless' comp version) and a light trike base was an unstable combination. I got caught out in turbulence and entered a stall / spin at about 100 feet; not good.

 

So the trick with nanos is to use a conservative set-up, with any 'intermediate' type hang glider being best - as they are generally less sensitive in lumpy air.

 

Microlights use inherently stable wings (lowish apect ratios), and there is more weight in the trike base - meaning more overall stability than most nano set-ups..

 

Good luck.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Hi Warren,

 

http://gibbogear.com/

 

I think these "GibboGear" trikes are interesting, more so the Manta Ray RST 12.5 103 Single Seat Wing and BB103 single seat trike.

 

I like the 8m wingspan folding topless wing concept so much I've sent an enquiry email. Might be able to shoehorn the whole thing into the back of my wifes Hiace van.

 

Rgds,

 

Glen

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Good find Glen - they do seem attractive though I'm far too cynical to take the testimonials at face value !

 

Pls update us when you hear back from them

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[eastmeg2]

I got a reply email overnight. My questions in black text, Mark Gibsons replies inblue text.

 

Rgds,

 

Glen

 

There are a few Pursuit-10’s and Chaser-S single seat trikes around and 2nd hand they tend to sell very quickly for around AUD 7,000 on the rare occasion that one does appear for sale and then you’re looking at an ageing machine, though it’s rumoured that one or both of these models may be coming into production again.

 

After much trawling around the web I’ve found several manufacturers of single seat trikes including yourself and AirCreation in France.

 

The Manta flys circles around the AC Fun single seater....You won't be left to far behind chasing you 912 either....

 

Your Manta Ray RST 12.5 103 Single Seat Wing and BB103 single seat trike have sparked my interest more than any other due to the reduced wing span and topless wing design.

 

RST is the way to go, both 103 and LSA....The performance increase for the 103 class is really obvious.

 

Can you provide any further data sheets on the wing, are other engine options available (due to Rotax stopping production of 447 & 503 motors),

 

Rotax has made a two year supply of 447, they say if demand goes up they may still produce...The 503 hasn't been taken off line yet.

 

and is the trike available in kit form at a reduced price? (Save on shipping costs too?)

 

A kit would save you a bunch...their prices are listed on my website.

 

Would there be any examples of this trike in Australia?

 

Lots of OZ interest but no M's there yet...

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

have a look at www.euroflyulm.com they have a neat trike called the Viper.

 

i'm rather partial towards their "flash comfort" tho. Nice people great products.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[damo]

My favourite Nano is the Dragonfly from UK. Retractable under-carriage and 4-stroke engine. http://www.flylight.co.uk/flexwing/dragonfly.htm

 

Some videos here http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Benashman

 

There is also a nice enclosed Nano from USA called the Seagull

 

http://www.fly-seagull.com/

 

 

[eastmeg2]

I've just been advised by email that the Gibbogear single seat trike may become available as a 51% kit.

 

"I'm working on a 51% FAA approved amatyer built kit for my wings and the BB Trike, this is going to take a couple of months, my hopes are to have it approved by Sun&Fun."

 

Depending on pricing it could be just the ticket for anyone seeking single seater trike to take flying on occasions when the bigger 2 seater wouldn't be practical.

 

Cheers,

 

Glen

 

 

[damo]

Could also order an Air Creation "Racer" from Chris Brandon in Alice Springs.

 

http://www.aircreation.com.au/products.php

 

Also, you can order the BB Trike kit direct from the manufacturer in Hungary.

 

http://www.trike.hu/kitt%20for%20sale.html

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Good find Damo, though I don't see the same topless strutted wings being offered as on the Gibbogear website.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

The wings on the Gibbogear seem to be their own design - fitted on to BB trikes

 

John

 

 

[eastmeg2]

In due course, I have taken a look at the Air Creation "Racer" single seat trike and found the Australian dealers website (www.aircreation.com.au). Hopefully I'll get something in the mail soon after some discussion. Just realised tonight that he's on this forum too.

 

Having an Australian dealer is a positive and it will be good to have the competition in the market.

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Have just been told last night that the AC Racer is not being produced any more. So none of what I consider to be the "Big 3" trike manufacturers make single seaters any more.

 

 

[Air Creation]

Yes..that's correct. Commercially manufactured Single seat trikes are not too common anymore across the globe. Air Creation have decided to cease production of the RACER since its inception 1985...with over 700 machines still flying around the world we have limited choice in flying s/s aircraft. Air Creation have recognised that a majority of pilots are requesting 4 stroke engines & with the Rotax 912 being extremely expensive... AC have opted for the HKS 700E four stroke 60hp engine..with 800 hour TBO and very economical low noise capaability...the HKS is the new engine on the European trike scene.

 

The Air Creation TREK is fitted with the HKS 700E - fitted with a KISS 450...you have a flexwing machine that is extremely reliability, very economy & two/single seat versatility...at an affordable four stroke trike price...!

 

Maybe we will see the CHASER on the scene in late 2008, very fast but a bit of a trick to land...I have one with a Rotax 447..which is now out of service as the wing fabric is sad..!

 

On another note..take a look at www.social.trikepilot.com ... a great site full of international pilot stories, pic, videos & a host of trikers stuff..! There really is more to flying just one brand of trike! Broaden your knowledge..explore the alternatives.

 

Smooth Flights

 

Chris

 

 

[Guest GawlerMicro]

Good call Chris,

 

Especially when you say "broarden your horizons".

 

The more GOOD trike choices we have in Australia, can only mean great service and better products in Australia. Although we are a small market.

 

I flew very briefly with you in a Clipper at Rutherford, and I found it a real awakening experience. I was also lucky enough to fly a Buggy at 'Sun n Fun' in Florida back in 96. I talked to Jean Luc (sales Guy )and sincerely believe the AC trike is one of the best engineered trikes in the world.

 

I have flown Andrew Hicks's DTA, when he and Ollie stayed in my hanger at Gawler briefly, which was also damm good fun.

 

I tried to get John Goodrich to bring his GT 450 to Narramine last year with many phone calls, but although he agreed, he was a no show.

 

Rod Tyson with the Ramphos did show up, but sadly didn't fly. It was pretty windy.

 

However, the more variations, and educated competition that is out there, and publicised, the higher the expectations of the consumer, and the better Aircraft the consumer will end up getting. Without the pressure on manufacturers, they will not compete, or change. All I'm saying, is please get out there and start promoting, it's really good for all of us !

 

Regards, Rob..................