Changes at Gympie

[Old Koreelah]

Flying rules change after 12 near-misses at Queensland airstrip

[Head in the clouds]

"In addition, helicopters are no longer allowed hover in the area."

 

I wonder which genius thought that one up ...

 

 

[Downunder]

"Mayor Mick Curran said it had only come to his attention in the past fortnight that there had been "about 12" near-misses in the past five years."

 

I would have thought 12 in 5 yrs was alright?

 

Sounds like council chasing excuses for a hidden agenda (noise) and leveraging on safety?..... "They include forbidding aircraft to land between sunset and sunrise...." "helicopters are no longer allowed hover...."

 

"......crisis meetings with the Civil Aviation Safety Authority....."...... lol....grandstanding to the public to make them look credible and serious....

 

 

[c722352]

Havn't the foggiest who threw this into the mix about 12 near misses, could not find any verifying facts. correct me if I'm wrong. there is a hard core of people who live out here around the airport who continually complain to council about the noise from aircraft and helicopters, they have moved next to an airport knowingly, and expect rural peace and quite. And of course accolades to the ABC coverage as a prominent politician likes to state Fake news. No thats harsh its just the ABC being the ABC

 

I live within a kilometer of the airport, I hate noisey helicopters after dark and the occasional idiot pilot who doesnt know the rules and flies much to low in the circuit, however I chose to live here knowing that a growing airport is close. if it gets to much I will sell up and move.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Havn't the foggiest who threw this into the mix about 12 near misses, could not find any verifying facts. correct me if I'm wrong. there is a hard core of people who live out here around the airport who continually complain to council about the noise from aircraft and helicopters, they have moved next to an airport knowingly, and expect rural peace and quite. And of course accolades to the ABC coverage as a prominent politician likes to state Fake news. No thats harsh its just the ABC being the ABCI live within a kilometer of the airport, I hate noisey helicopters after dark and the occasional idiot pilot who doesnt know the rules and flies much to low in the circuit, however I chose to live here knowing that a growing airport is close. if it gets to much I will sell up and move.

If you are throwing the Drifter in when you are selling up, give me a ring before you go to the real estate agents please.

 

A house near an Airport, A 912 Drifter, and a stones throw from the Gympie Muster.

 

Sounds like paradise to me.

 

 

[c722352]

If you are throwing the Drifter in when you are selling up, give me a ring before you go to the real estate agents please.A house near an Airport, A 912 Drifter, and a stones throw from the Gympie Muster.

Sounds like paradise to me.

dont get to excited might be a long way off

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Without dissing what has already been said, nobody should be allowed to fly without a radio and/or without using the radio.

 

 

[SDQDI]

anyone who thinks everyone should use a radio shouldn't be aloud to fly!

 

I think radios are a very important and useful tool but I think that there certainly should be allowances made for people to fly without them if they so desire, obviously not at every aerodrome but I think the current rules for radios are sufficient.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Without dissing what has already been said, nobody should be allowed to fly without a radio and/or without using the radio.

Not all aircraft are required to be radio equipped. The rule of 'see and avoid' still prevails, and in VFR flight looking out the window with a proper scan is far more effective at maintaining separation than trying to interpret the often confused, inaudible and/or garbled transmissions that many people make.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Not sure quite what 'more' you want johnm - are you not aware that not all aircraft are required to carry radio? Or are you not aware that seeing an aircraft on a conflicting flightpath is the most effective way to avoid allowing it to hit you?

 

As far as many peoples' ability to correctly interpret what comes over the radio - if you've ever done any student instructing or carried out BFRs, you'd be aware that many people under pressure just don't hear the radio at all, however clear the broadcast may be.

 

Then there's the fact that some radio transmissions are so poor you can't make out what's being said, and there's no point getting them to say again, the repeat is just as bad ...

 

Or there's the perfectly clear transmitter but the pilot broadcasting is 'radio-shy' so they either mumble half of what they're wanting to say, or gabble away a pre-prepared script so fast that it's unintelligible. Other radio-shy people either don't broadcast at all or leave their calls so late that they're sometimes of little value.

 

Every now and then you get a nice clear well-timed call that the student or pilot hears but then they have to work out what it actually means. Sometimes it can bring tears to your eyes watching them trying to work out where the other plane actually is relative to them, and where they're going - establishing their relative spatial awareness, in other words - and all this time they've been concentrating so hard on the radio calls they haven't had a glance around for traffic for several minutes at a time.

 

Many times I've thought we'd all be safer if everyone spent their time looking for other traffic rather than fiddling with the radio, stressing over their next broadcast, or mentally juggling the positions of other traffic.

 

Like I said, you can't beat a good and regular visual scan for traffic separation, and if you develop the discipline properly your traffic scan should be immediately followed by your panel scan which keeps you properly aware of the flight and engine condition, further enhancing your operational safety, and the changes in focal distance provide beneficial exercise for your eyes.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Without dissing what has already been said, nobody should be allowed to fly without a radio and/or without using the radio.

Do you think all cars be required to be fitted with two way Comms and make calls approaching intersections or when changing lanes?

 

 

[johnm]

No HITC - just agreeing with you ...... I thought 'more' you might expand on the matter (with your experience) ......................... its more important looking out the window and avoiding first off

 

A near miss is a good thing (compared to a direct hit)

 

 

[Geoff13]

Without dissing what has already been said, nobody should be allowed to fly without a radio and/or without using the radio.

Happily the Rules disagree with you.

 

I believe the rules are sufficient as they are.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I have flown into Gympie a bit and the formation helicopters that fly in there can be very unsettling.

 

One day I heard an inbound call for helicopter formation of 5 inbound at 10 nm etc.

 

Followed buy a joining call followed by a base call then the first helicopter came in and hovered for about a minute before taking off again.

 

It took me a while to work out where the other 4 were but they ended up being between 2 and 3 minutes apart and all came in, hovered for a minute then left before the next one came in.

 

It was a classic case of radio calls confusing what was really happening.

 

I am not sure what the solution to that would be but imho it would have been better for the leader to only call himself in as when he called base for the formation the 4th and 5th machine had not even joined the circuit. It was confusing thinking that a formation of 5 had joined when in fact only one had and the rest were still coming.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

No HITC - just agreeing with you ...... I thought 'more' you might expand on the matter (with your experience) ......................... its more important looking out the window and avoiding first offA near miss is a good thing (compared to a direct hit)

Ah, I got you now. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

I have flown into Gympie a bit and the formation helicopters that fly in there can be very unsettling.One day I heard an inbound call for helicopter formation of 5 inbound at 10 nm etc.

Followed buy a joining call followed by a base call then the first helicopter came in and hovered for about a minute before taking off again.

 

It took me a while to work out where the other 4 were but they ended up being between 2 and 3 minutes apart and all came in, hovered for a minute then left before the next one came in.

 

It was a classic case of radio calls confusing what was really happening.

 

I am not sure what the solution to that would be but imho it would have been better for the leader to only call himself in as when he called base for the formation the 4th and 5th machine had not even joined the circuit. It was confusing thinking that 5 formation of 5 had joined when in fact only one had and the rest were still coming.

This business about -

 

"In addition, helicopters are no longer allowed hover in the area."

 

- is starting to make a bit more sense to me now.

 

What kind of helicopters? Military, medivac, firefighting, spraying ...? And what's the hovering all about? They didn't land? Is it training flights?

 

 

[Geoff13]

I was told later that it was most likely a training school that flys in regularly with students from SE Asia that have very little English.

 

I have seen or heard the flight or similar flights several times when I have been up that way.

 

Always only one spokesperson on the radio. The radio always comes across as though it is a formation but rarely does it appear to be what I would call a formation.

 

I always thought that if an aircraft was fitted with a radio the PIC must be qualified to use it and make mandatory calls.

 

Very difficult if you don't speak English.

 

 

[frank marriott]

I have flown into Gympie a bit and the formation helicopters that fly in there can be very unsettling.One day I heard an inbound call for helicopter formation of 5 inbound at 10 nm etc.

Followed buy a joining call followed by a base call then the first helicopter came in and hovered for about a minute before taking off again.

 

It took me a while to work out where the other 4 were but they ended up being between 2 and 3 minutes apart and all came in, hovered for a minute then left before the next one came in.

 

It was a classic case of radio calls confusing what was really happening.

 

I am not sure what the solution to that would be but imho it would have been better for the leader to only call himself in as when he called base for the formation the 4th and 5th machine had not even joined the circuit. It was confusing thinking that a formation of 5 had joined when in fact only one had and the rest were still coming.

Geoff

 

Sounds like flying in a group not in formation. At least in any formation work I have done. - leader does the radio calls and everyone else holds their position - That includes CTA only difference is leader calls formation name as opposed to aircraft call sign. (Formation configuration OR "stream" take off and landing)

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

That raises the issue of how to announce/warn of the arrival of a group of aircraft.

 

Presumably the first one to reach the circuit adds to his radio call that he's the first of XX?

 

 

[facthunter]

Formation has a distinct meaning, that most understand and you are specially trained for it. Flying with a group is a chaotic hard to predict risky business where half the time you have NO idea where the rest are. and you will get incessant chatter between them, that is distracting from more important tasks. Not recommended by this little back duck. ONE ship, ONE Captain I say. Nev

 

 

[Nightmare]

The lack of taxiways to the RWY14 end, with the hump in the middle of runway, so you can't see the other end, could be a contributing factor maybe?

 

Put in a taxiway and the problem would be minimized, in my opinion

 

 

[Pearo]

Do you think all cars be required to be fitted with two way Comms and make calls approaching intersections or when changing lanes?

That is the dumbest argument I have heard in a long time. Aircraft dont fly on fixed 2d routes where you can expect traffic, and they generally fly a lot faster than your average vehicle as well.

 

Also, what is wrong with the added safety of radio? I think it should be mandatory approaching and in the circuit. It helps paint a good picture of where people are. If I am flying into an airport where people are making the correct calls, I have a mental picture of what is going on, and how many aircraft are in the circuit. This also helps me decide on the best and safest way to join the circuit.

 

For those of us who have the luxury of visual traffic information systems, you will know that even when you have the exact location of an aircraft getting a visual on them is sometimes near on impossible. You would also know that quite often the first warning you get is from the TIS, not from your own flawed vision. I can speak to anyone I know who flies with TIS and they all say the same thing, its amazing what you miss.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

That is the dumbest argument I have heard in a long time. Aircraft dont fly on fixed 2d routes where you can expect traffic, and they generally fly a lot faster than your average vehicle as well.Also, what is wrong with the added safety of radio? I think it should be mandatory approaching and in the circuit. It helps paint a good picture of where people are. If I am flying into an airport where people are making the correct calls, I have a mental picture of what is going on, and how many aircraft are in the circuit. This also helps me decide on the best and safest way to join the circuit.

 

For those of us who have the luxury of visual traffic information systems, you will know that even when you have the exact location of an aircraft getting a visual on them is sometimes near on impossible. You would also know that quite often the first warning you get is from the TIS, not from your own flawed vision. I can speak to anyone I know who flies with TIS and they all say the same thing, its amazing what you miss.

I'd agree that solely by maintaining a good lookout you won't know about all the traffic in your locale, but provided that your vision is up to standard you should most certainly be able to know about traffic that presents you with potential conflict.

 

BTW, I'm not saying that radio isn't useful when used correctly, my previous comments were just demonstrating some of the ways that radio actually reduces safety when people concentrate on it rather than maintaining a good lookout, and in my experience, the busier the radio traffic becomes, the less time people spend looking outside.

 

 

[M61A1]

That raises the issue of how to announce/warn of the arrival of a group of aircraft.Presumably the first one to reach the circuit adds to his radio call that he's the first of XX?

If they are military helicopters using G airspace, they will usually clearly announce that they are a flight of ( for example) two aircraft.

In regard to helicopters hovering....

 

I have told of flight training establishment on the Sunshine Coast that has been providing helicopter training for overseas students that hasn't been endearing themselves to all and sundry by doing hover training in close proximity to other aircraft, have they possibly been using Gympie as well?

 

 

[Cosmick]

I'll take the wrath from my peers, I think everyone should have a radio for reasons as outlined by Pearo, and should be properly trained to use it. Yes the rules say not required and some defend that, but of those above who do support the rule, who chooses not to carry a radio,