RAAUS election deadline extended.

[frank marriott]

Just saying, when you give autocratic control to 3 plus one, what do you expect. But that is what 800 members voted for, I hope they are happy.

 

Airshow handled well?

 

 

[storchy neil]

someone have the price of the sport pilot subscription before today cause RAA is now offering at $ 44.00 dollars for 12 months sub text to day

 

this election was not under the control of the Australian electoral commission I have checked whos bloody rules was it under oh sheet raaus we are stuffed read 34.3 constitution

 

neil

 

 

[gandalph]

Oh! What folly.I still sit in wonder the noise of yesteryear, the old board was running with poor governance. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..

So was is this voting exercise? I say it is a case of poor governance, governed by "Rafferty's Rules".

 

Look at Kaspers dilemma regarding the Tech. issues, really shows the Tech. Manual's/Tech.manager's disregard for the members wishes. (None)

 

KP.

Is that the the "Newcastle song" I can hear playing in the background again KP?

 

 

[turboplanner]

You actually seem pleased.

 

 

[gandalph]

Yes Turbs, speaking as just one of the 800 members that Frank seems disappointed with, I am pleased.

 

I'm pleased with the performance of the Board since they were elected (by a significant majority of votes cast, if people care to remember. - that's called representative democracy.). I'm pleased that the Board acted promptly and in a reasonable manner to alleviate the problem of Aust post not getting ballot papers to members in a timely fashion and I'm always pleased when the ne'er-do-wells show their true colours and expose their agendas once again.

 

It's the same tune sung by the same groaners.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I would recommend a study on Judas Goats

 

 

[Oscar]

Yes Turbs, speaking as just one of the 800 members that Frank seems disappointed with, I am pleased.I'm pleased with the performance of the Board since they were elected (by a significant majority of votes cast, if people care to remember. - that's called representative democracy.). I'm pleased that the Board acted promptly and in a reasonable manner to alleviate the problem of Aust post not getting ballot papers to members in a timely fashion and I'm always pleased when the ne'er-do-wells show their true colours and expose their agendas once again.

It's the same tune sung by the same groaners.

Gandalph, I fail to understand why you are so defensive of RAA. The facts as you state them are self-evident, and I can't see why you think it necessary to state them. I mean, FFS, it's not as if there is any alternative to RAA, the purported alternative has disappeared like a balloon in a hurricane, (once again, and as usual).

 

I cannot imagine that anybody in Australia does not understand that the abject failure of Australia Post to provide an acceptable level of service means we all have to re-calibrate our expectations of postal delivery times. I doubt that there is anybody who has not had the unpleasant experience of receiving a postal bill due for payment after the due date has elapsed.

 

Just because RAA has taken a realistic position based upon member experience of the delays in delivering the ballot papers does not automatically justify repudiation of RAA's actions on the part of those seeking to ascribe fault. People are entitled to expect perfection... though one might look at recent events, such as the CBA failing to report as required something like 65,000 transactions requiring report due to legislation. This sort of slackness is unacceptable on the part of Australia's largest company and quite obviously, it is equally unacceptable for a small enterprise relying on volunteer management.

 

Get with the programme, Gandalph.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Gandalph, I fail to understand why you are so defensive of RAA. The facts as you state them are self-evident, and I can't see why you think it necessary to state them. I mean, FFS, it's not as if there is any alternative to RAA, the purported alternative has disappeared like a balloon in a hurricane, (once again, and as usual).I cannot imagine that anybody in Australia does not understand that the abject failure of Australia Post to provide an acceptable level of service means we all have to re-calibrate our expectations of postal delivery times. I doubt that there is anybody who has not had the unpleasant experience of receiving a postal bill due for payment after the due date has elapsed.

 

Just because RAA has taken a realistic position based upon member experience of the delays in delivering the ballot papers does not automatically justify repudiation of RAA's actions on the part of those seeking to ascribe fault. People are entitled to expect perfection... though one might look at recent events, such as the CBA failing to report as required something like 65,000 transactions requiring report due to legislation. This sort of slackness is unacceptable on the part of Australia's largest company and quite obviously, it is equally unacceptable for a small enterprise relying on volunteer management.

 

Get with the programme, Gandalph.

These words from your sage friend are indeed important, Gandalph, although he appears to be talking about a different CBA event, or has overstated the incidents which formed such an important lesson to back up his advice to you, by 21%, but that is not critical on this occasion.

We were indeed entitled to expect that a bank would be complying with the law, just as we would expect a company would comply with the law, and even the humble, "reasonable man"woud comply with the law, but instead, particularly if we were shareholders, received a salutory lesson of what can happen when those appointed to oversee the smooth workings of the law, start poking their noses into what is going on in the field from day to day.

 

August 3, 2017 the ABC News, Melbourne reported that the Australian Transactions Reports & Analyst Centre (Austrac) has launched civil proceedings in the Federal Court alleging that the Commonwealth Bank failed to comply with the law on 53,700 occasions.

 

The maximum penalty for EACH of the 53,700 transactions is up to $18 million, a total of $966,600,000,000.00.

 

Just goes to show, Gandalph, how your friend is right on the money to insist on the highest standards of perfection.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Well said Turbo..

 

There is the case one must comply to the laws of country.

 

In this case who gave the directions to be different?

 

KP

 

 

[gandalph]

Well said Turbo..There is the case one must comply to the laws of country.

In this case who gave the directions to be different?

 

KP

Keith, As you've addressed your question to Turbs I must assume that you're being rhetorical. If you really want an answer, perhaps you should ask it of the CEO of RAAUS. Anything else is just grandstanding.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Keith, As you've addressed your question to Turbs I must assume that you're being rhetorical. If you really want an answer, perhaps you should ask it of the CEO of RAAUS. Anything else is just grandstanding.

Never correct answer there.

KP.

 

 

[storchy neil]

from the CEO RAAUS according to him the board has the power to dictate to any thing they wish like at whim to extend the closer date so it came down to those left at the top

 

Australian Post is known for known for late delivery and lost mail aust wide but not in ACT or there abouts

 

fact letter posted to me from ACTpost marked 15 5 2017 to SHEPPARTON arrived 19 5 2017 would have been quicker to drive there and get it

 

SO WHY was the sport pilot book not posted in june when it was known that the voting would be held in july so mutch for good governance neil

 

 

[gandalph]

Never correct answer there.KP.

Keith, you have actually asked and either not received an answer or received an unsatisfactory answer?

 

 

[Oscar]

Gracious me!. It appears that Turbs still hangs around here!.

 

Turbs, let's both join in the herbal swing here: if I am the Sage, then surely you are the Basil?

 

 

[gandalph]

Thanks Keith for the "Like", but there was a serious question in there. Did you actually ask someone at RAAUS or did you just assume what the answer would be?

 

The reason I pursue this is because if you have asked the question of RAAUS and you didn't like the answer then it is entirely appropriate (and informative for fellow forumites) for you to say so here. Itt would add credibility to your comment at post #61

 

However, if you haven't actually asked someone in authority at RAAUS then it seems to me that you are just using this Forum to take a swipe at the RAAUS

 

 

[Oscar]

I will not be drawn into any discussion of who is the Fawlty party.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Keith, As you've addressed your question to Turbs I must assume that you're being rhetorical. If you really want an answer, perhaps you should ask it of the CEO of RAAUS. Anything else is just grandstanding.

Or you could take a look at the RAA Ltd constitution yourself, and then skillfully lay out what the Constitution permits and what was actually done.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Gracious me!. It appears that Turbs still hangs around here!.Turbs, let's both join in the herbal swing here: if I am the Sage, then surely you are the Basil?

I used the term sage as an adjective, in which case its meaning, according to my dictionary is: "Wise, judicious, experienced"

 

Eat that.

 

 

[gandalph]

Or you could take a look at the RAA Ltd constitution yourself, and then skillfully lay out what the Constitution permits and what was actually done.

Thank you Turbs, I did that some time ago when I was considering how I would vote on the new constitution, but I think you (perhaps mischievously) miss the point. It wasn't me who sniped at the RAAUS with the comment about "Never correct answer there", It was Keith, and I thought it germane to the conversations here to ask him if he had actually asked the question. I'm not interested in arguing at this time, or in this venue, whether or not the action taken by the RAAUS leadership was in someway underhanded and/or illegal. There are enough bush lawyers and out of practice solicitors hereabouts to entertain us with their thoughts on that subject. It doesn't require my input.

If members of the RAAUS feel strongly enough, they could mount a legal challenge to the conduct of the election, but that would require that they put their money where mouth(s) are. Are you a gambling man?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

How can the members sue themselves in court Randalph?

 

 

[octave]

How can the members sue themselves in court Randalph?

Good point, perhaps just whining will help or we could just go flying!

 

 

[Keith Page]

gandalph #65.. I did ask some questions and the answers I was provided with -- did not fit with the information of which I had sourced.

 

Something is being hidden. The case is going back pre the management restructure. Follow Frank's comments he has some very honest views.

 

KP

 

 

[gandalph]

Thank you Keith. You say "something is being hidden". One could say the same about your answer. Too cryptic for me.

 

Of course you are not in any way obliged to provide more details here but your responses often have the flavour of a five year old coquettishly telling friends: "I've got a secret but I'm not going to tell you what it is." That's your choice of course. and please don't take umbrage at my pressing you for details. If the Executive have exceeded their powers or broken the law then it should be brought out in the open and dealt with, clearly and without the innuendo that can be so prevalent in some internet fora. But is so hard to for members here to judge when people who claim to have the facts speak in such indirect terms. Which is why I suggested that if those who have the facts feel strongly enough about it, they should take legal action. If a person knows a law has been broken but chooses not to report it appropriately, is he or she not guilty of an offence as well? Keith, I'm not implying that you do have that knowledge so the previous sentence is NOT directed specifically at you, but if the shoe fits.....

 

Regards

 

Gandalph

 

or perhaps I'm now Randalph! That might be a step up - ET can now call me Randy instead of Gandy!

 

Cheers!

 

 

[kasper]

Thank you Keith. You say "something is being hidden". One could say the same about your answer. Too cryptic for me.Of course you are not in any way obliged to provide more details here but your responses often have the flavour of a five year old coquettishly telling friends: "I've got a secret but I'm not going to tell you what it is." That's your choice of course. and please don't take umbrage at my pressing you for details. If the Executive have exceeded their powers or broken the law then it should be brought out in the open and dealt with, clearly and without the innuendo that can be so prevalent in some internet fora. But is so hard to for members here to judge when people who claim to have the facts speak in such indirect terms. Which is why I suggested that if those who have the facts feel strongly enough about it, they should take legal action. If a person knows a law has been broken but chooses not to report it appropriately, is he or she not guilty of an offence as well? Keith, I'm not implying that you do have that knowledge so the previous sentence is NOT directed specifically at you, but if the shoe fits.....

Regards

 

Gandalph

 

or perhaps I'm now Randalph! That might be a step up - ET can now call me Randy instead of Gandy!

 

Cheers!

I've remained quiet because I do not appreciate being tarred as one of the continual whingers. I DID ask for the written rules for this election because the last one was not legit. The written rules for THIS election have never been provided to me by RAAus so I am unable to say under what if any powers the election timeframe for this election was altered after the election started.

Now I'm not going down to spend my money trying to sort this mess out because I already flew half way across this country last year to raise in public on notice under the actual rules of the association as it was and I got shit down.

 

Whether you agree the process was close enough or good enough or the outcome was what most people who voted wanted should be immaterial to actually following processes that as there to protect the members.

 

Two years running two elections with questionable process and 1 consistency being the CEO and the chairman.

 

I will not be asking RAAus AGAIN for the election docs because they clearly do not give a sh_t for the rules or process or members.

 

 

[gandalph]

Kasper, I've never considered you as a whinger. I've said in other discussions here that I applaud your passion and enthusiasm, and I certainly appreciate that you back up your assertions with well set out supporting arguments and reliable plausible information in support of your views. I wish that others were as lucid.

 

I may not always agree with what you say but I read your posts with interest and respect.

 

Regards

 

G