Why we need sirens, hooters...

[Old Koreelah]

I understand the need to keep the weight down, but that means your life depends on one or two little bolts.

 

I'm starting to appreciate the one-piece box spar of my Jodel.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Both Dan3111 and my S...Mabel have airhorns fitted to them...both were used on propertys with animals...I presume mustering...I am putting the ones back onto Mabel..I think its a good idea. Steve Donald has a set on his Sav and he flew over my place at 1200 ft and I could hear his fine

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I shifted it a bit the horns faced down and forward

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

I understand the need to keep the weight down, but that means your life depends on one or two little bolts.I'm starting to appreciate the one-piece box spar of my Jodel.

That's just the nature of high wing - bit difficult to run a spar through where your head goes, much easier to run it under your bum in a low-wing.

 

Plus your life still depends on one or two little bolts - the ones that hold your elevators on, for instance!

 

 

[planesmaker]

O K strutted cessna's don't have a history of wing folding, they've been safe for long time now. I am very happy I have a strutted high wing!

 

 

[Birdseye]

I recall the ground crew alert horn fitted to the the JT8D B737s worked very well to get the attention of the package holiday totty as they wandered back to the terminal.

 

 

[eightyknots]

That's just the nature of high wing - bit difficult to run a spar through where your head goes, much easier to run it under your bum in a low-wing.Plus your life still depends on one or two little bolts - the ones that hold your elevators on, for instance!

Or through-bolts on an engine: the engines are very dependent on them to keep the running satisfactorily.

 

 

[Yenn]

The wing strut works minly in tension for flying loads and compression when there is no lift on the wing. That Cessna strut had failed in compression. Could that have been from a very heavy landing?

 

 

[IBob]

The wing strut works minly in tension for flying loads and compression when there is no lift on the wing. That Cessna strut had failed in compression. Could that have been from a very heavy landing?

I would think it likely to have failed when striking an innocent beach goer???

 

 

[Oscar]

The wing strut works minly in tension for flying loads and compression when there is no lift on the wing. That Cessna strut had failed in compression. Could that have been from a very heavy landing?

More likely from impact with one of the unfortunate beachgoers.

 

Jabiru wing struts are classic design, and even the 230 wings are held on by four 5/16" bolts ( AFAIK, certainly the smaller Jabs. are, and in the case of the LSA 55, by 1/4" bolts at the wing root pick-ups and two 5/16" bolts for the struts) - all of which operate completely in unrestricted shear. It is CRITICAL for compression strength that the force line on the strut is transferred end-to-end absolutely through the centre-line of the strut extrusion so no bending moment is introduced|: Jabiru have placards on the strut attachment bolt lugs on the wings and fuselage saying: 'DANGER:DO NOT TIGHTEN' to ensure this.

 

Any intermediate bracing struts - e.g. on the Gazelle - attached to the main struts can introduce a bend on the main strut that takes the line of compression force beyond the strut strength and it collapses if that force is sufficient. In an adverse wind gust, combined with the extreme twisting loads on the wing in the case of the Gazelle as the wing section introduces a negative lift condition on the front of the wing at high speed/load condition, makes the wing twist itself to structural death - with fatal results for the occupants.

 

C152s are a very, very well-proven design with a great safety record - and you can bet they routinely get rough treatment. I very much doubt that a beach landing would have exceeded the compression tolerance of the lift strut without some other damage being sustained by the strut.

 

 

[facthunter]

The strut has bent apparently in compression near the lower end. The often fitted jury strut(s on other designs) increase the compression loads that can be coped with but the 150/152 (and other Cessna's of the period,) don't have then due a fairly generous cross sectional size of the strut. You don't have a strut AND a carry-through cantilever spar often. It's one or the other generally but the CATALINA is a bit of both being designed for water that can be a bit rough.

 

You couldn't rule out some other weight being placed on it causing the bend, either, perhaps while getting someone out. Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Selfish asshole, hope he never flies again.

 

 

[kaz3g]

From memory of the 172, the wing would only have a couple of bolts and the top skin of the cabin. Strut provides the strength because it makes the triangle. It's not like the spars go all the way through the cabin.

There is a carry through tube. But yes, most aircraft wings rely on a few little bolts to keep them where they are supposed to be.. SIDS has produced some interesting results.

 

My AUSTER has two at the wing root..one front and one back. There are two wing struts to reduce twisting of the wing. It also has a steel tube frame which is "laddered" and gives it quite strong wing attachment points.

 

Kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

The pilot of the Cessna will almost certainly be facing criminal charges along manslaughter lines. He allegedly chose to perform an emergency landing on the beach which was occupied by many people instead of veering away and ditching.

 

Pilot and instructor in court in Portugal after deadly beach crash

 

Something we all need to think about.

 

Kaz

 

 

[eightyknots]

The pilot of the Cessna will almost certainly be facing criminal charges along manslaughter lines. He allegedly chose to perform an emergency landing on the beach which was occupied by many people instead of veering away and ditching.Pilot and instructor in court in Portugal after deadly beach crash

 

Something we all need to think about.

 

Kaz

I am sure they will "throw the book" at the pilot. Beach goers should be able to feel safe without a threat to their lives from above.

 

 

[onetrack]

An RAAF Wirraway, A20-212, on shark patrol, was involved in a beach crash at Maroochydore in 1950.

 

The aircraft was on aerial shark surveillance patrol along the coast from Redcliffe to Noosa. It was circling over Maroochydore Beach when it banked steeply, passed close to the Maroochydore Surf Life Saving Club lookout tower, and clipped the ground with its right wing tip.

 

On impact, the wings broke from the fuselage and the main body of the plane careered along the crowded beach.

 

Three children were killed and fourteen other people, including the pilot and crew, were seriously injured.

 

In 1951 several formal investigations were held into the crash, including a Coroner's Inquest and an RAAF Court of Inquiry.

 

The RAAF Court of Inquiry found no blame could be sheeted home to the pilot, Herbert Thwaites, as he had not indulged in any dangerous flying techniques, nor broken any aviation laws.

 

In his evidence, Thwaites claimed he had spotted a shark, which gave him the right to descend below the minimum RAAF specified height of 1000' (he descended to 300') throttled back from 125kts to 110kts, and banked. He claimed he may have accidentally overbanked whilst keeping his eye on the shark.

 

The cause of the crash was simple stalling of the aircraft. The RAAF accepted liability for all the injury and fatality claims, and paid out accordingly.

 

However, the compensation payments were quite low by todays standards.

 

Few more feet would avoid crash, says pilot - Brisbane Telegraph (Qld. : 1948 - 1954) - 23 Feb 1951

 

 

[rollerball]

I think that the last thing any pilot would think about while in the middle of an enforced or emergency landing would be sounding his horn!

 

But the problem on this occasion seems to be that the pilot in question put his own safety before that of 3rd parties when we should be doing precisely the opposite. He elected to forced land on a crowded beach, no matter if the people he killed wandered in front of him at the last minute (which may or may not have happened) when he could have ditched in fairly shallow water close to the beach.

 

As a high wing design, even if the Cessna had inverted, there would have been precious little impeding the exit of the occupants and in any case, their chance of survival would have been much higher than that of the poor unfortunates that they hit, which was precisely zero.

 

So interesting though this thread is, it doesn't have much purpose in the real world, IMO.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I think that the last thing any pilot would think about while in the middle of an enforced or emergency landing would be sounding his horn!...

Perhaps true Rollerball, but practise makes perfect. I plane to mount my horn button on the throttle knob or flap handle and use it regularly during late final. Australia has plenty of strips where horses, cattle, camels, sheep, kangaroos and emus (but rarely all at once) need to be cleared before landing.

 

 

[old man emu]

kangaroos and emus need to be cleared before landing.

Yeah, that's right! pick on the indigenous members of the community. We were born here. You flew here!

 

 

[fb9jann]

This tragedy shows that our planes need a lightweight, loud warning device.Two killed in Portugal beach plane crash - BBC News

 

I've been trying to design a large pop-out whistle that could use airflow to make a racket.

I installed a $15 automotive horn a couple of years ago (see it arrowed on photo attached) for the purpose of warning people on the ground if I found myself in a similar situation. Not long prior to doing this there had been an RV landing on a beach that hit someone and another aircraft trying to put down on a ski field that killed a woman - both incidents occurred in Europe. At the time there was a lot of bad press about the Jabiru engine, which I have a 3300A in my Arion Lightning. I also use it at the "clear prop" stage on engine start-up. It certainly gets people's attention, as is the intent. Whether it is effective in warning people on the ground of my presence 100~200m away I have no idea. It is mounted within the engine bay and is pointed toward the cooling air discharge opening in the bottom of the cowling.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I also use it at the "clear prop" stage on engine start-up. It certainly gets people's attention, as is the intent...

I hadn't thought of that; a good idea I will adopt.

 

 

[rollerball]

I hadn't thought of that; a good idea I will adopt.

Those amongst us who are less respectful of authority could possibly fit a set of Colonel Bogey air horns

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Spare us!

 

 

[Oscar]

I hadn't thought of that; a good idea I will adopt.

You might need a bloody flashbomb..

 

Training with Trevor Bange... he requires that you open the door wide, lean out, shout 'Clear Prop', close and lock the door again, and tighten the harness before you hit the starter. He explained why.

 

One day at Clifton, student training. Nobody but DDSA members around - therefore, experienced aviators. Did the pre-start-up checks, student called 'Clear Prop', hit the starter. A head appeared, looking very startled, just ahead of the prop. The bloke had been crouched down, looking at the front tyre quizzically.

 

You would not credit that, of experienced aviators. But ask Trevor: it happened.

 

 

[JG3]

[quote="

 

So interesting though this thread is, it doesn't have much purpose in the real world, IMO.

 

Not quite. Some years ago we had an aircraft with an engine failure setting up to land on a golf course fairway, only to notice a couple of golfers strolling away right in the wrong place. They showed no notice of his approach and he had no way to warn them, so he diverted to land on a nearby highway and was killed in a collision with a 4wd.....