Light aircraft accident near Melbourne

[bexrbetter]

And another one walks away ..

 

 

 

[hihosland]

I dare say that the thinking behind the less than 45knt proviso was that any crashes would be at less than 45knts.

 

Would that it were so!

 

 

[facthunter]

Think it had more to do with off field landings suitability and tied in with the energy concept, falling on buildings etc All that's a bit airy fairy if you don't fly over towns at low level and you don't fallout of the sky at stall speed usually. Stall speed hasn't got as direct link to crash speed unless it's a mucked up landing.

 

I recall the logic of a landing limited to a quite slow speed once you deducted the average headwind you might expect off the stall speed of the plane. High landing speed areoplanes certainly tend to cause more injuries than the slow things. Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

The 45kt stall is a joke really. I can get the Corby to stall at less than 45kts, but to use 58.5kts as an approach speed would be stupid in my opinion and that is Vs X 1.3.

But is that power OFF, or + some power? If the POH states the aircraft Vs = 40, then logically 40 x 1.3 = 52 approach speed. But, most aircraft are not flown with max fwd CoG, and most have some power on - so Vs = less than the book figure. So, you could fly a slower approach - but, what's the point if there is adequate runway and the air is a bit bumpy? So, we all tend to fly our aircraft to an easily observed IAS above the 1.3 Vs number. It's easy to get rid of speed but difficult to regain it.

 

I dare say that the thinking behind the less than 45knt proviso was that any crashes would be at less than 45knts.Would that it were so!

Perhaps? Maybe it was derived from some 'deeper' aerodynamic formulae? Again, refer to what the 'real' Vs/Vso is given the actual weight of the aircraft, the CG position, and the power used. I can't really substantiate my claim - but I believe many of these heavy arrivals have more to do with what we call ground rush. I think it has to do with less experienced pilots dealing with in flight malfunctions plus inclement weather plus other stressors - causing them to experience ground rush and so allowing the IAS to decay in the last 200 ft zone. The actual crash may be at less than their Vs/Vso - but there is a large vertical component involved.

 

Anyone else?

 

 

[facthunter]

The stall speed varies with weight. If you have a two place plane with both people largish and fuel near full you could be at max weight (almost). On another day it's just you and you are trim and light weight, the tank is 1/4 full, you are doing a few circuits to make your passenger carrying legal. The variation is 150 KGs easily which is about 20% of your aircrafts weight. That's quite a difference in safe speed required. It could also be a bit tail heavy and that lowers the stall speed too. Why is THAT"? Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

146 kg weight varies a short wing Jabiru stall just 3 kts

 

Setting both mtow and max stall sets max energy to some extent. Even if higher stall speed regularly used it is limited.

 

Why 45kts dirty, chosen..........who would know

 

 

[Downunder]

146 kg weight varies a short wing Jabiru stall just 3 kts

In a Foxbat, about 6 kts. 32 to 26......

 

 

[Keenaviator]

I saw a Bristel demonstrator at Wangaratta a few weeks ago and was impressed by its apparent build quality (although pop riveted). It is quite large overall with plenty of room for the occupants. Its take off and climb performance was less impressive indicating that it is quite heavy.

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't believe the 3 knots stall speed variation for that quite large weight change with the Jab is accurate. Anybody care to calculate the effective lift required variation from full forward to full rearward Cof G. and explain why? Any time you have excess speed at the point of flare you either float or land with extra load on the nosewheel. Nev

 

 

[alf jessup]

I saw a Bristel demonstrator at Wangaratta a few weeks ago and was impressed by its apparent build quality (although pop riveted). It is quite large overall with plenty of room for the occupants. Its take off and climb performance was less impressive indicating that it is quite heavy.

There is one at LTV Laurie

As you say beautifully built and finished off

 

I went for a fly in it with the owner and flew it

 

It is the 8m wingspan model

 

Compared to my Sierra without trying to sound bias I found it very stiff and heavy in roll (which being the 8m wing compared to the 9 m wing model) and it flew quite nose high in s/l flight and to me didn't handle the turbulence anywhere near as well as mine

 

Another pilot friend also went for a fly in it and commented that the Sierra was a much nicer aircraft to fly in his opinion

 

I'd still have one no doubt about that but I certainly prefer the flying qualities of mine compared to it

 

 

[Keenaviator]

There is one at LTV LaurieAs you say beautifully built and finished off

I went for a fly in it with the owner and flew it

 

It is the 8m wingspan model

 

Compared to my Sierra without trying to sound bias I found it very stiff and heavy in roll (which being the 8m wing compared to the 9 m wing model) and it flew quite nose high in s/l flight and to me didn't handle the turbulence anywhere near as well as mine

 

Another pilot friend also went for a fly in it and commented that the Sierra was a much nicer aircraft to fly in his opinion

 

I'd still have one no doubt about that but I certainly prefer the flying qualities of mine compared to it

I'd be happy to have one as a gift too Alf. I'd sell it, buy a J230 and pocket the change.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The 45kt stall is a joke really. I can get the Corby to stall at less than 45kts, but to use 58.5kts as an approach speed would be stupid in my opinion and that is Vs X 1.3.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Yenn. I've spoken to several Corby drivers and they've assured me the stall is in the 30s. Considering the Corby is similar to the D9 Jodel, but with much smaller wings, I was a bit skeptical.

These days I won't let the ASI under 60 until late final.

 

 

[facthunter]

Normally a higher wing loading plane will be smoother in turbulence. Indicated air speed is suss in some uncertified planes. Particularly at the top and lower end of the range. Nev