Sidestick vs Joystick

[Geoff_H]

I am at that point in the design and construction of my little aircraft that I must commit to either a side stick or a joy stick. I have never flown an aircraft with a sidestick. Has anyone here done that? I read a report on the Sirrus 22 that said that the sidestick was the cause of accidents as it used springs for pilot feedback nor aerodynamic force. The sidestick has less movement and hence must have a different feel to it. Also the problem/advantage with a sidestick is that the pilot can be recumbent and hence present a smaller frontal area, but lying down more pushes the CofG back, not nice, I would have to compensate by moving engines forward, possible but adds to the weight.With a joystick recumbent is not possible as you have to reach the joystick between your legs (shh).

 

Any thoughts or suggestions

 

Geoff

 

 

[djpacro]

Suggest that you spend some time with glider pilots.

 

My only experience is with the old Airtourer which has springs for pitch trim therefore springs give it additional stick force gradient and stick force per G. Husky also has springs for its trim system with its joystick.

 

Some good general info on stick forces in NASA CR-1975 Riding and Handling Qualities of Light Aircraft - A Review and Analysis.

 

 

[Geoff_H]

Thanks. I didn't realize that gliders use sidesticks as the pilot is recumbent. I can calculate all the forces and moments etc, I can't open any of the NASA cr1975 documents, do they contain any ergonomic data? Any glider pilots that can tell me what makes a good system and bad system, do any of them wish that they had a joystick?

 

 

[facthunter]

I have no idea what type of plane you have. If it's a low frontal area, side by side or tandem. I wouldn't be too worried about the spring feel aspect but it the plane ends up with a fair control loading the more travel the better for leverage and precision, if you have the room. If the increased speed doesn't reflect more load there's something wrong. I'm old fashioned and prefer centre stick with side throttle for a tandem set up. Side by side brings a lot more options and usually centre throttle. My experience is you get used to most things unless they are particularly awkward. Peoples legs can get in the way of some sticks in a cramped cockpit. Nev

 

 

[Geoff_H]

Hi Nev,

 

The aircraft is single seat. 12 ft long, 16ft wingspan. Cramped as can be, looks a little like a coffin at present (LOL)

 

 

[SSCBD]

I really like the side stick. Shame not more aircraft don't have them. Provides more room and noting between the legs to have stuff on knees which you always will have from time to time I find it more comfortable and with arm rest. Its easy get comfortably with it.

 

 

[red750]

The trim control on the Airtourer was an interesting arrangement, from the height adjuster on the Victa lawnmower. Bumped it into nose down on final one bumpy day, brought the hairs up on the back of the neck.

 

 

[facthunter]

Think I'd still go for the centre stick. I like to be able to change hands, if need be. Is it a high speed thing, sleek and clean? Nev

 

 

[derekliston]

I like Zenith CH701 setup, similar to Airtourer, side by side with stick between the seats and left hand throttle. Awkward for writing anything down though unless you are left handed (I'm not!) Always seemed odd to me that the majority of people are right handed but most side by side two sweaters are flown left handed!

 

 

[derekliston]

I like Zenith CH701 setup, similar to Airtourer, side by side with stick between the seats and left hand throttle. Awkward for writing anything down though unless you are left handed (I'm not!) Always seemed odd to me that the majority of people are right handed but most side by side two sweaters are flown left handed!

Two seaters (l hate auto correct!!!)

 

 

[408059]

I have time with side stick controls in both gliders and powered aircraft. Both were homebuilt aircraft, in a single seat or tandem configuration, and had interesting behavioural characteristics. The transition was easy enough. In tight cockpits the side stick allowed the use of knee-boards without interference and better visibility of the instrument panel because gauges low and center could be seen. The side stick also provided an armrest, which was not only restful but helped control PIO in aircraft that were pitch sensitive. This said, I am indifferent between center stick and side stick. It depends on your mission or purpose. I would never consider a side stick for aerobatics for example.

 

Steve

 

 

[facthunter]

In a pitch sensitive plane you can have your lower arm resting on your leg, with centre stick. You can also hold it between your knees, temporarily if you need both hands for something. Nev

 

 

[djpacro]

... I can't open any of the NASA cr1975 documents, do they contain any ergonomic data? ...

I've put in in dropbox for you Dropbox - Aeronautical Stuff

 

[ben87r]

Ive flown both In GA AC, and personally the sidestick was much better IF it was to be left hand controlled. The joystick always felt more comfortable in my right hand but obviously doesn't work for engine/radios etc but for a home built anything is possible. Also the stick takes away valuable lap space for maps/charts etc depending on mission.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Two seaters (l hate auto correct!!!)

I'm left handed but when it comes two sweaters, I generally use my right hand, or both

 

 

[facthunter]

I guess you still hate auto correct...

 

Anything of size with dual controls, side by side, has the Control wheels in front of you (unless it's later Airbus). or a glider, and all the other "stuff" in the middle.(. Flaps gear stay on the panel) throttle pitch (auto)spoiler fuel shut offs etc on the console, so you must adapt when changing sides. It pays to be flexible unless you only fly only ONE plane where you will have a bit of "unlearning" to do to when and IF you change. I think people over emphasise this matter. Adapting to a new plane is part of the game, as you go along. Nev Nev

 

 

[Pusher]

I am at that point in the design and construction of my little aircraft that I must commit to either a side stick or a joy stick. I have never flown an aircraft with a sidestick. Has anyone here done that? I read a report on the Sirrus 22 that said that the sidestick was the cause of accidents as it used springs for pilot feedback nor aerodynamic force. The sidestick has less movement and hence must have a different feel to it. Also the problem/advantage with a sidestick is that the pilot can be recumbent and hence present a smaller frontal area, but lying down more pushes the CofG back, not nice, I would have to compensate by moving engines forward, possible but adds to the weight.With a joystick recumbent is not possible as you have to reach the joystick between your legs (shh). Any thoughts or suggestions

 

Geoff

Hi Geoff

 

I purchased a Sky Arrow which has a side stick. On the ground doing control checks it felt slightly heavy. On first takeoff I was concerned I would not adapt too well as I am well aged. As the aircraft rotated I was concentrating on all the other related issues in getting airborne and the side stick became a non event. Control feel was moderate to light. I quickly realised I prefer the side stick for a couple of reasons. It is more comfortable with your arm supported . If you use a kneeboard it allows greater flexibility as it can be a folding type spread across both legs. Ie iPad plus scratch pad or notes.

 

Pusher

 

 

[Jaba-who]

There are heaps of half and half versions as well. If you like the side stick but like the feel of the stick being central you can set up a t-bar like system that are in Robinson helicopters. Obviously you Dont need both sides for duals in a single seater so you can drop one side.