Is this any good? Camguard Aviation Oil Additive.

[waraton]

Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

Are there similar products which are being used?

 

What are the opinions on the effectiveness of additives?

 

Is there anyone who sells it in Adelaide?

 

 

 

I have a Camit 3300 and am currently using Shell W100 plus changing at 25 hour intervals.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Some additives work (a bit), some do no harm but what you should be asking is are they cost effective ??

 

Over the 45 years that I have been playing with engines/transmissions I have come to the conclusion that additives are rarely cost effective.

 

The type of people (like me) that get sucked into using them are often the obsessive maintainer who is always looking for that little bit of extra TLC to lavish on their machine.

 

The reality is that adhering to your machine's (engine etc) manufacturers service advice (including lubricants) is going to give you the best shot at a long operational lifespan for your aircraft/engine.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Just throwing this one in ...

 

I have witnessed first hand what Moreys Oil Stabiliser does, including under extreme conditions, and the claimed temperature drops are very real, and I would use it in a heartbeat in an aircooled aircraft engine, might even be the best application for it.

 

As simplistic as it sounds, it's tacky and sticks to/coats all internal surfaces both taking heat away through greater area of transfer, and protects engines that sit for periods of time as the tacky film stays in place.

 

Google oil additives and you will see lots of people bagging most brands out, except hardly ever for Moreys (Lucas in the USA).

 

Shirley some of you have cranked the little plastic wheels in the plastic case?

 

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Hi Bexrbetter - Top marks to Lucas/Moreys for a great visual sales gimmick. Like most other regular visitors to my local auto parts stores I have turned the little gear box & watched one oil climb higher than the other.

 

I am not a chemist, just a bush mechanic of 45 + years my comment is:

 

Viscosity additives (thickeners) are unlikely to improve or preserve an engine that is already in good condition, beyond what you should expect from the recommended lubricants for your engine.

 

Cant quite get my head around the claimed reduced running temperatures - oil is a major part of the engine cooling system but for it to increase its heat transfer it would need to -

 

• further reduce frictional heat
   
   
  
• have a greater volume (carry more heat)
   
   
  
• have enhanced heat transport capacity
   
   
  
• bigger oil cooler (disperse heat)
   
   
  

 

 

I doubt that Lucas oil additive makes much change to any of the above

 

I don't think any harm will be done but you may slightly increase the demand from your battery on cold starting and also raise your fuel consumption marginally.

 

 

[adrian222]

I am wondering now if anybody uses a hiclone in there plane.

 

 

[facthunter]

If you added it to a certified engine I would expect you would be doing something illegal. The W-100 PLUS is the Shell " AVIATION" oil with the Lycoming additive for camshaft issues.. There "Might" be some additives that do good things but WHO would KNOW?. NO company producing high quality oils will endorse additives. Well "they WOULD say that wouldn't they" may be fair comment BUT those are certified oils sold under release notes which are a guaranteed to meet a defined specification, article. Generally OILS don't' cause the problems some assert they may have. Discussion on the net on these matters is quite irrational and bigger than witchcraft. If an oil meets the spec I would leave it alone just don't run it cold and change it as recommended. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Lycoming approves some additives, I thought that camguard was one of them, but I am not certain and also the shown sample could be different from what may be approved.

 

I have just looked at Lycoming and camguard sites.

 

Lycoming has one additive approved and it is not Camguard.

 

Camguard says it is certified, but their definition of certified seems to be that it was used by an airshow plane and a lot of people watched the airshows. I looked at their certification certificate and it was absolute Bull. I just mistyped bull putting in bulk, maybe I should have left it at that.

 

 

[onetrack]

This could be a very long thread. There are additives that are worthy. There are many that are dubious.

 

Trying to distinguish those that are worthy is a minefield and needs specific testing and comparison to be done, by independent laboratories.

 

Trying to find additive producers who will provide independent laboratory test results, that back their claims, is difficult.

 

Typical of the useful additives is molybdenum disulphide. Moly disulphide has been known for nearly 100 years to continue to provide dry lubrication ability when other lubricants have dried out. MoS2 definitely reduces friction in gear trains and reduces running temperatures.

 

I've used it for years, it's especially good in greases, as it provides lubrication when the lithium soap components of the grease dry out.

 

Bex's support of Moreys oil stabiliser is not without reasoning. Oil drains rapidly off the surfaces its supposed to cling to, and corrosion protection is then substantially reduced. I have seen fully-reconditioned diesel engines seize up with corrosion in as little as 2 years in storage, without attention.

 

All you can do, is try the product and keep accurate records and see if there is any difference.

 

I use Pro-Ma DT-5 diesel fuel additive, and it definitely reduces fuel consumption by around 3%, and it does clean up the internal (combustion chamber) areas of the engine. It doesn't provide any noticeable power increase, nor does it seal worn oil rings!

 

The constituents of most additives are usually petroleum product chemicals that have long been known to improve lubricity and reduce corrosion, and assist in more complete combustion.

 

Some of these chemicals are also essential oils, and chemists have found these can provide measureable improvements in fuel and oil performance.

 

Some are synthetic compounds with very interesting properties.

 

Long-chain polymers are one of the greatest finds, and one of the greatest oil additives, in recent decades.

 

LCP's are the Viscosity Improvers added to oil to make single grade oils into multigrade oils.

 

LCP's have the curious characteristic (which is opposite to oil) of becoming thicker as they get hotter and becoming thinner as they get colder.

 

As a result, multigrade oils have up to 30% of their volume containing LCP's.

 

LCP's have no lubrication ability on their own, but they allow the oil to keep its viscosity over a very wide temperature range, and thereby, not lose any of its lubricating ability, due to excessive thinning when hot, and thickening when cold.

 

Whether the oil companies add enough of these oil-improving chemicals to make a difference - or whether they add only enough to meet fuel and oil specifications, is the moot point - and one that the additive suppliers really play on.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Hi Bexrbetter .

Not yet.

 

H

 

• have enhanced heat transport capacity
   
   
  

 

 

I doubt that Lucas oil additive makes much change to any of the above

 

.

You doubt means you haven't used it of course, but I have some considerable hands on experience with Moreys and it works, period. I used to think it was rather gimicky with the plastic wheels and claims, and one of which is too drop temps, until, as I say, actually used it without choice and was cynical even then, until I saw constant results of the same magnitude.

 

We need a Jabiru owner to give it a go and watch the CHTs.

 

IThere "Might" be some additives that do good things but WHO would KNOW?.

Petro Chemical Engineers, what do you think they do?

 

NO company producing high quality oils will endorse additives.

100% NOT true.

 

BTW, I bet my left sock there are guys here using additives but couldn't be bothered to mention it because of the flack they get.

 

 

[adrian222]

I've got a 1988 Hilux here on the farm I have had it since new its got just over 500,000 klms on the clock.It just used ordinary Delo 500 oil without any additives.Now are people saying that I could do better with putting additives in my engine.So how many more klms will this extend the engine in the lux?

 

 

[facthunter]

Am I off your ignore list, Bex? Marvelous how everything I say is 100% wrong. Please put me back where I was, and I can talk to the others. Nev.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Hi Adrian222 - Im with you on this -

 

I have a Daihatsu Rocky F 75, EX, 2.8 Turbo Diesel that I purchased new in 1985. Has been used to explore most of NSW bit of Vic and bit of SA, trained 2 sons to drive and up until recently pulled a double horse float (Gross 1.5 - 1.8 tonnes). It has a bit over 500,000 kms on the clock. Engine has never been "opened", never had additives and aside from routine 5k servicing, valve clearances and two injector checks, has never missed a beat. Used Shell Mirena M, then Rimula X for most of its life, recently moved to Caltex Delo 400 (bit cheaper) - ALL QUALITY OILS/MATERIALS and SERVICING ON TIME every time.

 

I use Castrol LSX 90 throughout the transmission (gear change a bit stiff on a cold morning, until it warms up). When it was still very new (just out of its 20 k warrenty) I added Moly to the transmission - BIG MISTAKE. Moly okay in standard diffs but should NEVER be used in a synchromesh transmission or slippery diffs - had to strip gear box & transfer, clean all the Moly out, polish the synchro rings - all good again.

 

For its 500,00k birthday, I replaced all the bearings & seals in the gearbox, transfer case and rear diff - gears showed little evidence of wear.

 

I add a fuel conditioner twice per service interval - small but definite (documented) INCREASE in fuel consumption each time. I added the conditioner as a bacteria preventative rather than a fuel extender.

 

When not towing, Rock will do 10 kms /litre (or 10 l/100kms) no matter how hard or gently it's driven. Until very recently no oil added between services, now she has a small "top up" mid way. Sustained RPM over 3000 will increase oil consumption. Foot to the floor, on the level, Rock will tow the float at 110kph (no more without gravity assist) and do this hour after hour.

 

Recently Rocky has gone into semi retirement (still operational) & I purchased a Ford Ranger PX Mk1 3.2, 6 speed manual - great car but I doubt it will last as long as Rocky.

 

My point is, some additives do work in some in some conditions - most have doubtful economic benefits.

 

 

[rhtrudder]

Just throwing this one in ...I have witnessed first hand what Moreys Oil Stabiliser does, including under extreme conditions, and the claimed temperature drops are very real, and I would use it in a heartbeat in an aircooled aircraft engine, might even be the best application for it.

 

As simplistic as it sounds, it's tacky and sticks to/coats all internal surfaces both taking heat away through greater area of transfer, and protects engines that sit for periods of time as the tacky film stays in place.

 

Google oil additives and you will see lots of people bagging most brands out, except hardly ever for Moreys (Lucas in the USA).

 

Shirley some of you have cranked the little plastic wheels in the plastic case?

 

Read somewhere that moreys foams up which might detract from the way your oil performs, any ideas on this.

 

 

[jetjr]

There is some Jabiru users running Moreys with good sucess.

 

Well experienced to tell the difference too

 

I have an issue with volumes used and cost

 

Fuel additives, now theres a forum pad topic.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Am I off your ignore list, Bex? Marvelous how everything I say is 100% wrong. .

You've got things very wrong Nev, I counter posts or parts of posts when I see incorrect information in them, I don't go looking for posts to attack just because they are written by certain individuals. The moment you press "Post Reply", your content is up for scrutiny in a Public Forum.

 

I also click 'Like' or 'Funny' etc. for informative or clever posts (many times daily, including ones by Facthunter), and 'Winner' for great posts, it works both ways and i believe I administer that fairly based on each individual post's content - regardless of the Author.

 

 

[onetrack]

For what its worth, I have a sales brochure from about 1970, for the old Toyota Stout ute - the one with the 4 cyl, 2.0L, 5R petrol motor.

 

The Toyota blurb states categorically, that the 5R engine is engineered for a useable life of 300,000 miles - that's 482,800 kms.

 

That is the factory engineered life - which can easily be exceeded by careful and considerate use - and it can be extended substantially again, by the use of protective additives.

 

I have little doubt that a million kms engine life for many vehicles, is easily achieved with care and protection.

 

What kills most vehicle engines is cooling system degradation, which leads to head corrosion, overheating, and seizure.

 

 

[Bernie]

My motor home has almost 800,000 Ks on the odometer , I use straight 30 grade oil If I use multi grade it uses oil ?

 

Have never put additives in the engine . I get 4.5Ks to the litre towing our car behind or not .

 

Bernie .

 

 

[bexrbetter]

The Toyota blurb states categorically, that the 5R engine is engineered for a useable life of 300,000 miles - that's 482,800 kms.

That is the factory engineered life - which can easily be exceeded by careful and considerate use - and it can be extended substantially again, by the use of protective additives.

Ahh the good 'ol 5R, used in a plethora of Toyota vehicles since the late '60's, Crowns, Stouts, Dynas, Coronas, Coasters and still made today for use in forklifts, air conditioner engines in large buses, and other industrial uses. Couldn't kill them.

 

Have put rings and bearings through a number of them that should have been dead otherwise.

 

My motor home has almost 800,000 Ks on the odometer , I use straight 30 grade oil If I use multi grade it uses oil ?

The base stock for a multigrade is the lower number, the added polymers add viscosity as they get hotter.

 

So if your running a 20/50, then the 20 weight might simply be too thin for your engine's condition, or the oil is simply not getting to the temp required to increase the viscosity. The worse case is it's getting too hot and boiling off the thinner base oil.

 

But who cares, if 30wt has gotten you 800 Klicks, why even ask.

 

I used to stock Penrite 50 in my workshop in Logan City, the Bogan's Mechanic's budget re-ringing tool in a bottle, amazing stuff. Stick it in a fumey oil burning engine, and 3 months later they would come in for an oil change, and they hadn't used a drop in the interim.

 

Oh and Chemiweld for head gaskets, brilliant stuff if used correctly, ahhh Logan

 

 

[onetrack]

Is it being presumptuous to ask, if your standard radiator repair technique, involved Bars-Leaks, too?

 

 

[cherk]

Is it being presumptuous to ask, if your standard radiator repair technique, involved Bars-Leaks, too?

most likely pepper for the bogans

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Is it being presumptuous to ask, if your standard radiator repair technique, involved Bars-Leaks, too?

Awful stuff. Only one way to fix a radiator, pull it out and fix it.

 

I have done temp side of the road repairs by crimping the holed tube with pliers. Doesn't happen as often now due to aerodynamics and the amount of other stuff now in front of the radiator, fans, air con condensor, plastic guards etc.

 

 

[Frankus1aust]

I'm guessing that Camguard would be useful if you have an aircraft that has periods of inactivity in a potentially corrosive environment. Have a look at the Savvy Aviation videos on YouTube, very interesting. They are recorded webinars from the EAA in the USA and have some great content on flat engines.

 

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yeas ago, there was an additive which claimed to increase a tractor's horsepower by lowering internal friction. The demo unit was a bar held down onto a spinning shaft. With the additive, the lube film stayed unbroken and the friction was indeed less. This demonstrated the effect of "extreme pressure" additive, and how it was a good idea in some lubrication situations..

 

But to extrapolate this to a tractor was just silly. And we showed it by running a tractor on a dyno and adding the additive... no increase of power showed up.

 

This is not to say that Morey's and Camguard are not good ideas, I think it very possible that they are.

 

 

[scsirob]

...And we showed it by running a tractor on a dyno and adding the additive... no increase of power showed up

What you proved with this, is that the stuff protects against "extreme pressures" that are not a factor in tractor engines.

A bit like bottled water, advertized as "0% Fat".

 

 

[onetrack]

Zinc Dithiophosphate (or Zinc Dialkyl Dithio-Phosphate - abbreviated to ZDDP) is an important additive to automotive lubricating oils, and it is specifically targeted towards camshaft and tappets, to reduce start-up wear on these components.

 

Automotive lubricating oils have had their ZDDP levels reduced in recent years - one, because ZDDP blocks catalytic converters - two, because roller rockers and direct-acting overhead cams have become more prevalent - and three, because there have been concerns over the long-term toxicity effects of ZDDP.

 

Certified aviation engines require zero levels of ZDDP in their specified oils - so if you're running a certified aviation engine, you should never use any additive without manufacturer consultation - in case the additive contains ZDDP.

 

However, if you're running an automotive-based aircraft engine - or an uncertified aircraft engine - and you're using automotive oils in it - you need to be aware that the low levels of ZDDP in current-spec automotive lubricating oils, may be exacerbating camshaft and flat tappet wear, because of the lowered levels of ZDDP in these oils. Accordingly, any additive that contains zinc compounds, will be of benefit to your automotive-based or uncertified engine.

 

What you don’t know about zinc can hurt you