AirVenture funding crisis - Facebook statements.

[nomadpete]

The bad will generated by all this is so sad, so unnecessary, and so avoidable.

 

Any sponsorship deals have to be confirmed and committed to, a long way in advance. Otherwise your event becomes a nonevent.

 

And yes, as noted by one poster, it even filters right down to the food vans who often have exclusivity clauses in their contracts to ensure the financial viability of their presence. For instance, at one of the Caboolture Air spectacular events (some years ago), the warplane museum was quite forcefully prevented from running their monthly sausage sizzle on the day, as it went against the food purveyer contract signed by the organisers.

 

In this case we are losing an event because of a failure (probably at many levels) of communication, negotiation, and mediation.

 

 

[Roscoe]

The bad will generated by all this is so sad, so unnecessary, and so avoidable.Any sponsorship deals have to be confirmed and committed to, a long way in advance. Otherwise your event becomes a nonevent.

 

And yes, as noted by one poster, it even filters right down to the food vans who often have exclusivity clauses in their contracts to ensure the financial viability of their presence. For instance, at one of the Caboolture Air spectacular events (some years ago), the warplane museum was quite forcefully prevented from running their monthly sausage sizzle on the day, as it went against the food purveyer contract signed by the organisers.

 

In this case we are losing an event because of a failure (probably at many levels) of communication, negotiation, and mediation.

I agree. I wonder if there is any chance if salvaging things to some degree, by people who were going to fly in, flying in anyway , and just enjoying some comraderie without any of the assiciated stuff?

 

 

[Roscoe]

I agree. I wonder if there is any chance if salvaging things to some degree, by people who were going to fly in, flying in anyway , and just enjoying some comraderie without any of the assiciated stuff?

And it hasnt been officially cancelled yet has it?

 

 

[Yenn]

Oz Runways were the main sponsor and got a deal which excluded Avplan. Avplan have made that public, or maybe it was SAAA. As far as I can see there is little to choose between Avplan and Oz Runways. I have read that Avplan is prone to crashes, but I use it without any problems. I have heard that Oz Runways is not the best at replying to queries from users. this may or may not be true.

 

Oz Runways were it seems expecting to ban the opposition from participating by spending up big for sponsorship. I don't consider that to be ethicly correct, but I could well be wrong. I also consider it wrong for Oz Runways to pull out of their sponsorship deal because they couldn't stop Avplan from being there.

 

It appears to be a complete stuff up by the organising groups, SAAA, RAAus and APF.

 

A pity that one of the biggest events may not go ahead, but you did at least have The Old Station fly in, which had a terrific air show, and just about as many planes as OzKosh had. Plus it was run by an unpaid team of helpers and what is more raised a substantial amount of money for the Capricorn rescue helicopter and it was at a more remote location than Narromine or Temora.

 

Bex, you question the insurance costs. I can't give you a figure for that, but the costs of running the airshow are very high. I can't remember off hand what Old station show costs, but it is well into the tens of thousands. Plus providing accomodation and fuel for all concerned

 

 

[SDQDI]

Yenn reading through the various letters from the different mobs it seems that most of them are on the same page except avplan. It doesn't look like ozrunways pulled out because they couldn't exclude avplan but rather because they copped a lot of flack from everyone after partial truths (if the majority of letters were true) were released.

 

It seems ozrunways didn't originally aim to have the exclusive deal but only when more money was needed did they negotiate the exclusive deal after (according to most) avplan had been approached.

 

It seems like a bit of a shemozzle and is disappointing how it finished.

 

 

[REastwood]

From what I gleaned from the various emails, postings etc. from both OzR and AvPlan was that no one wanted to sponsor AVA, then OzR became the first sponsor, then AVA (with still no sponsors or even bookings for stalls) asked OzR if they could cough up more money and so for roughly a $60,000 investment AVA offered in return exclusivity (which shouldn't be a problem as no one else has even signed up for a trade stand yet so it doesn't look like any of your competitors are even coming). OzR agreed on the proviso that if anybody did want to sponsor then OzR would drop back to either a major or normal sponsor depending on how many other sponsors came in.

 

So if AvPlan (who as it seems hadn't even booked a stall at this stage) wanted to, they could have easily approached AVA and offered to become a sponsor. The question is why didn't they? Why did they launch a social media campaign saying they had been excluded from an event to which they hadn't even committed to going?

 

Anyway, it looks like it's been a steep learning curve for quite a few people and OzR looks like they will distribute the money elsewhere in a more quieter fashion which in the end may be the better way to do it.

 

 

[turboplanner]

From what I gleaned from the various emails, postings etc. from both OzR and AvPlan was that no one wanted to sponsor AVA, then OzR became the first sponsor, then AVA (with still no sponsors or even bookings for stalls) asked OzR if they could cough up more money and so for roughly a $60,000 investment AVA offered in return exclusivity (which shouldn't be a problem as no one else has even signed up for a trade stand yet so it doesn't look like any of your competitors are even coming). OzR agreed on the proviso that if anybody did want to sponsor then OzR would drop back to either a major or normal sponsor depending on how many other sponsors came in.So if AvPlan (who as it seems hadn't even booked a stall at this stage) wanted to, they could have easily approached AVA and offered to become a sponsor. The question is why didn't they? Why did they launch a social media campaign saying they had been excluded from an event to which they hadn't even committed to going?

Anyway, it looks like it's been a steep learning curve for quite a few people and OzR looks like they will distribute the money elsewhere in a more quieter fashion which in the end may be the better way to do it.

I haven't seen any complaints from AvPlan regarding being or not being a sponsor; while that's being bandied around and judgements are being made, it's relatively easy to find out what AvPlan's complaint was - just go to their website, which says:

"We've recently been notified in writing from the organisers of AirVenture Australia that we will not be permitted to attend, be allocated booth space or speaking spots during the event in October 2017. They have also notified in writing this has been performed under direction from the major event sponsor."

 

 

[Nobody]

What disturbs me a little is that someone along the line thought that an exclusive arrangement was ok.

 

I am reminded of the quote attributed to Paul Poberezny, the founder of the EAA:

 

“EAA is open to all. Who do we tell that they are not welcome? Who do we tell that they should just stay home?”

 

 

[turboplanner]

Did I misquote them Win?; do you have some secret knowledge that they didn't mean what they wrote?

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

...... I have read that Avplan is prone to crashes, ........

Perhaps not the best turn of phrase in aviation circles ;-)

 

 

[SDQDI]

I haven't seen any complaints from AvPlan regarding being or not being a sponsor; while that's being bandied around and judgements are being made, it's relatively easy to find out what AvPlan's complaint was - just go to their website, which says:"We've recently been notified in writing from the organisers of AirVenture Australia that we will not be permitted to attend, be allocated booth space or speaking spots during the event in October 2017. They have also notified in writing this has been performed under direction from the major event sponsor."

But they had more on their Facebook which was in the first post of this thread which reads as follows.

We have been supporters and sponsors of this event in the past (under the Oz-kosh name and AUSFly/NATFly before that) so this action has come as a complete surprise (and contrary to what has been written elsewhere, we were not formally approached to provide sponsorship this year). We hope that this policy is short lived and we can once again support this great cause of bringing Australian pilots together to enjoy one another’s company and celebrate what it is to be an aviator.

 

Which contradicts what Ozrunways, RAA and SAAA have all put out inasmuch as they all say they were asked.

 

 

[turboplanner]

But they had more on their Facebook which was in the first post of this thread which reads as follows.We have been supporters and sponsors of this event in the past (under the Oz-kosh name and AUSFly/NATFly before that) so this action has come as a complete surprise (and contrary to what has been written elsewhere, we were not formally approached to provide sponsorship this year). We hope that this policy is short lived and we can once again support this great cause of bringing Australian pilots together to enjoy one another’s company and celebrate what it is to be an aviator.

 

Which contradicts what Ozrunways, RAA and SAAA have all put out inasmuch as they all say they were asked.

That part is still up there on the AvPlan web page, but any differences over who said what and when is just that, not all that unusual or newsworthy.

 

However the exclusion of an organisation from an event- restraining them from trading if true, could have been a very hot potato!

 

 

[SDQDI]

It might not be that newsworthy but it makes the world of difference. Reading through it comes across that they have been deliberately snubbed which would not be very nice if it was/is true. If the story happened the way RAA, Ozrunways and SAAA said though it turns it around the other way.

 

Just going on what we can read I think Ozrunways decision to pull out completely while harsh is the only way to go on without too much loss of face for any party.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

That part is still up there on the AvPlan web page, but any differences over who said what and when is just that, not all that unusual or newsworthy.However the exclusion of an organisation from an event- restraining them from trading if true, could have been a very hot potato!

Hmm, yes, well ... is the Restriction of Trade Practices Act still in force in its original form? If so then the non-sponsor needn't have worried, just turn up with a display at a trade tent and there's nothing a competitor, major sponsor or otherwise, with or without a contracted exclusion clause, could do about it. In fact one word of objection would entitle the 'injured party' to prosecute with free legal representation from the Fair Trade Commission.

 

 

[tillmanr]

I don't think you are allowed to gate crash events such as this. I recall a number of times companies being restrained such a the airship which was to overfly the grand final in Melbourne and skywriters being stopped from displaying company names not of official sponsors at the AGP at Alfred Oark Melbourne some years ago.

 

 

[Powerin]

Ethical or not, exclusivity deals are all around and standard practice. Businesses want a return for their sponsorship or advertising dollar. I don't know why Restriction of Trade doesn't apply...but it happens all the time.

 

Coke or Pepsi give milk bars flashy fridges at no cost on the proviso that the competitor's product is not sold there. Do we kick up a fuss if we can't buy Pepsi at a certain store because of restrictions? When Bose put their audio products into retail stores the stores got the advantage of the slick marketing of Bose displays...but those displays had to put somewhere where they could not be demo'ed or directly compared with any other audio products. Marketing.

 

Aviation is such a small market in Australia with only a few players and small consumer base. Perhaps the mistake made by AVA is that there is not room or tolerance for marketing ploys like this in a such a small and close-knit consumer group as aviation is.

 

 

[Nobody]

There is a big difference between Coke or Pepsi at a football match and the Ozrunways/Avplan situation here. Imagine if one football club exclusively sponsored the grand final and then said that another club couldn't participate in the tournament. There would be no game for the fans to watch. We also dont know the full details of the restrictions. For instance garmin have their pilot EFB app. Were they banned too? I dont blame Ozrunways for taking up the offer but the organizers should have had more nous that to offer it.

 

Is the event still happening? RAAus said they would provide further details a few days ago but there has been nothing. The event webpage has no mention of any of the latest goings on.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Ethical or not, exclusivity deals are all around and standard practice. Businesses want a return for their sponsorship or advertising dollar. I don't know why Restriction of Trade doesn't apply...but it happens all the time.

Some of these cases just may not have been prosecuted...yet.

 

There are plenty of sole sponsorships, but competitors are not banned from attending the event or trading at the event; that's where restrictive trading can come in.

 

Coke or Pepsi give milk bars flashy fridges at no cost on the proviso that the competitor's product is not sold there. Do we kick up a fuss if we can't buy Pepsi at a certain store because of restrictions?

I've had personal experience there; if it's a sole fridge, the competitors cannot be excluded from putting their product in it. The solution to that is when the fridge owner does he daily delivery, all the competitive product is cycled down to the bottom part of the fridge; problem solved for most of the day.

[nomadpete]

Turbs, I've seen a big brand fridge repossessed just because there was some Golden C product in the bottom when the rep paid a visit. Happened at a primary school canteen. Whether legal or not, this sort of thing happens.

 

With regard to the post topic, we don't really know what actual wording is in any contracts nor the exact discussion content leading up to the final falling out. A few words here or there can change the context entirely. So it's best not to take part in any angry exchanges. At this point what matters to us is whether the event is still going to happen.

 

 

[Jim188]

Besides insurance, can someone detail where the great costs come from?Does anyone know what the insurance costs?

I might chime in on this issue, I am involved with many different events each year in a professional capacity.

 

Some Event Requirements.

 

Event Liability Insurance.

 

Event Volunteer Insurance

 

Event Airshow Insurance.

 

Wet Weather Insurance

 

Media, Advertising, Online Content.

 

Office Consumables

 

Event Staff.

 

Staging Crew

 

Council Costs, (Rubbish Collection, Hire of Council Own Facilities, Traffic Control, SES)

 

Government Permits

 

Police.

 

Overnight Trade and Site Security

 

Crowd Control.

 

First Aid or Medical Personal.

 

Event Electrician

 

Portable Toilets for Public and Volunteer Base.

 

Site Two-way Communications. (UHF etc.)

 

Overall P.A. Systems

 

AV Systems.

 

Security Fencing.

 

Portable Shower.

 

Site Lighting.

 

Power Generation.

 

3 phase Distro's & Power Leads

 

Marques.

 

Announcers & Commentators

 

Stage or Presentation Risers

 

Event Site Transport

 

Cold Storage

 

Dry Storage.

 

This is a bit of a general list of event requirements to consider for an event, not all events need everything listed here and some may need a lot more that are not listed.

 

But most come with a cost, if you can't get them donated or sponsored.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I might chime in on this issue, I am involved with many different events each year in a professional capacity..

Thanks for the details Jim, and the other contributors to my question.

 

Remember this event is the combining of two of three events and still it finds it hard to stack up.

What does that say for aviation in AU and those involved?

Narrowmine is too far?

 

Imagine if one football club exclusively sponsored the grand final and then said that another club couldn't participate in the tournament.

I don't see any reason to bring St Kilda into this.

 

.

 

 

[Superclean]

A couple of thoughts re Ozkosh that was:

 

I drove from the Gold Coast to volunteer as one of the airside marshalls at Ozkosh. As an older trainee pilot thought it would be ( and was) a good opportunity to check out a wide variety of aircraft up close.

 

Met the full range of personalities too!! Totally ignored by vendors as I wandered around with the airside bib on!!

 

The RAA classes were overflowing full - need a larger area. Air was stifling ( stunk)

 

Food - drove into town for choice.

 

Camping - amenities were great. Toilets & showers better than Oshkosh for reasonable cost.

 

For our small flying population it was a good pipe opener to be developed. For anyone to backbite and bitch to the extent the entire event could be cancelled should brand them as persons to be avoided at all costs. Happens everywhere it seems.

 

For myself, I'm enjoying learning away from the Madding Crowd and remain hopeful someone with more sense than angst can ensure this fledgling event continues.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Obviously this needs to be sorted quickly as I'm thinking phones will be ringing to cancel accommodation etc.

 

Guesss it's a good opportunity for Oz Runeays opposition to step up - or shut up.

 

 

[Love to fly]

Obviously this needs to be sorted quickly as I'm thinking phones will be ringing to cancel accommodation etc.Guesss it's a good opportunity for Oz Runeays opposition to step up - or shut up.

I think it's a pity OzRunways pulled out. They didn't need to. And as naming sponsor they would be afforded the publicity that goes with that. AvPlan going along and paying the requested fee as a normal stand/display holder etc would not have impacted and would allow people to compare products etc. This would have avoided all the negative publicity and angst.

 

 

[Nobody]

I wonder if a compromise is being worked on. All the facebook posts have been deleted....