AirVenture funding crisis - Facebook statements.

[Old Koreelah]

Let's hope so, Nobody.

 

Competition has driven many improvements to both AvPlan and OzRunways, giving us world-class homegrown products. (I just wish they'd cooperate to make Traffic visible across both platforms.) Given our very small domestic market, I'm amazed that either could afford the spare cash to sponsor major events. These are not big businesses; they rely on the enthusiasm of a few individuals, so, after an acrimonious dispute like this I wouldn't blame anyone for withholding a load of their money.

 

As others have said, our FlyIns need all the attractions we can get. The organisers would be nuts to exclude anyone.

 

 

[Downunder]

I'm wondering how Ozrunways can pull out? Were they being advertised as a sponsor before any contract was in place and signed?

 

The "exclusive" thing was an extra as I see it.

 

 

[Yenn]

I use Avplan and am happy with it. I don't remember why I chose Avplan. I have looked at Oz Runways and it seems excellent we are luck in Australia to have a couple of such great products available.

 

I have often wondered how so much could be spent on promoting both the products. Both will send experts to little out of the way places to do training, promotions. What a pity that this fiasco should happen. It would be nice to know who is really responsible. In the meantime enjoy using either product, they are one of the greatest aids to safe flying that we have.

 

 

[kaz3g]

That part is still up there on the AvPlan web page, but any differences over who said what and when is just that, not all that unusual or newsworthy.However the exclusion of an organisation from an event- restraining them from trading if true, could have been a very hot potato!

How so, Turbs?

 

Kaz

 

 

[Jim188]

It would be nice to know who is really responsible. In the meantime enjoy using either product, they are one of the greatest aids to safe flying that we have.

I have use Oz Runways over the past few years and found it to be good on an Ipad, but I am disappointed in this situation.

 

I think Oz-Runways has walked away from this situation knowing that many people will not agree with the idea of their exclusivity rights only for their own product at a National Event being run by membership type organisations.

 

More importantly we should support which ever organisation choose to leak this information, hang on, that's not the right word, it's not a leak, as we members of these organisation we are entitle to know details of what the Management Executives or the Boards Member are approving.

 

Please, before anyone stands up and goes, Oh it's has to be Commercial in Confidence, well yes, but as a member of one of these organisations involved, I am entitled to see such agreements or deals that are made on behalf of my organisation and Commercial in Confidence allow for this, as I am an interested party to the agreement. .

 

My company deals with such organisations all the time, if you are not happy doing business with Membership Organisations knowing that any or all of your financial transactions with them maybe scrutinized by it's membership and could find their way into the public domain, don't do business with these types of organisations it is that simple.

 

It seems to me from the outside looking in, that the business principles used in this situation may have be lacking a far bit of business integrity for this type of event.

 

 

[turboplanner]

How so, Turbs?Kaz

The claim by AvPlan on their site appears to have been taken down, so appears to be no longer an issue.

 

 

[kgwilson]

So is there still a crisis? The Airventure website still says presented by OzRunways & this appears on every page. According to the site the organisers are SAAA & RA-Aus. There is no mention of APF although APF appears in the full page Advert in the August Aviation Trader & they are listed as an exhibitor. Avplan is nowhere to be seen. Maybe everything has been resolved & they will all kiss and make up.

 

 

[Nobody]

APF used to be listed as an organiser I think. I wonder if they have pulled out of being an organiser over this whole issue.

 

 

[Bluboyz]

SAAA Membership Brief - AirVenture Australia 2017 - Tony White – President SAAA

 

11th August 2017 (SAAA website)

 

It seems that AVA 2017 financial funding shortfall has been resolved through "Crowd Funding" and we can all look forward to a great event.

 

 

[KRviator]

$60,000 from the SAAA membership?? Wow

 

 

[Love to fly]

$60,000 from the SAAA membership?? Wow

Why always so negative? First I've seen of $60,000 being needed is your post. Doubt if that was the amount of the OzRunways exclusive sponsorship deal. And AOPA also put out a call to their members to contribute to the SAAA fund raising drive and raised $8,000, I think in the first night.

 

 

[KRviator]

Not negative - realistic... OzR themselves came out with the figure on their FB post IIRC, which is now removed, with the new one simply saying "we're talking tens of thousands here guys and it has really stretched us thin - we don't have any millionaire investors)", though one of the OzR guys does give an insight into the $$ at stake in his Prune post, "$10-20K per sponsor, across multiple sponsors...."

 

It is reported to be a SAAA member (someone quite high up if you believe the commentary on 'Prune)that got themselves into this mess and I fail to see why any of the rank and file members should put their hand in their pocket to bail out an orginisation that would permit such a thing to happen in the first instance.

 

As for why I hold ill will towards the SAAA, I would ask you consider my postings as regards trying to get my already flying RV swapped from RAAus to VH using the SAAA process. In the end I gave up and went back to RAAus, which, given the effective utility I have lost (in terms of payload, operational freedoms/CTA/NVFR/IMC) etc) should speak volumes.

 

EDIT: Apologies - it was RAAus who said there was a $60K shortfall in their FB post - not OzR...

 

Moreover, the attempts by some bodies to assert their relationship with the event despite having no agreements in place have compromised the existing commercial relationships with OzRunways and other participants who have also withdrawn leaving a potential shortfall of more than $60k. As a direct result of this the event may not go ahead as planned.

[Love to fly]

It is reported to be a SAAA member (someone quite high up if you believe the commentary on 'Prune)that got themselves into this mess and I fail to see why any of the rank and file members should put their hand in their pocket to bail out an orginisation that would permit such a thing to happen in the first instance.

...

AvPlan being told they were excluded is hardly what caused this mess, more about the fact that they were excluded. Still it's now history so lets move on.

 

And as stated previously I think it's a pity OzRunways pulled out. They didn't need to. And as naming sponsor they would be afforded the publicity that goes with that. AvPlan going along and paying the requested fee as a normal stand/display holder etc would not have impacted and would allow people to compare products etc. This would have avoided all the negative publicity and angst.

 

Hopefully a compromise has been/is being reached and all will go ahead as planned.

 

 

[derekliston]

So we had one brilliant event last year and now it turns to absolute shambles! Latest message by email from SAAA, is Airventure on? don't ask us, we don't know. What chance has Sport Aviation/Recreational Flying of surviving or expanding if we cannot get a spirit of cooperation. We complain about CASA but to a large extent we are our own worst enemy. Given the current situation, will you be planning on attending?

 

 

[Love to fly]

So we had one brilliant event last year and now it turns to absolute shambles! Latest message by email from SAAA, is Airventure on? don't ask us, we don't know. What chance has Sport Aviation/Recreational Flying of surviving or expanding if we cannot get a spirit of cooperation. We complain about CASA but to a large extent we are our own worst enemy. Given the current situation, will you be planning on attending?

The last email I received from SAAA clearly stated funds had been pledged and that it was on. Have you heard something different??? And yes we are planning on attending.

 

 

[derekliston]

Yes, as of 30 minutes ago, as I said SAAA email stating don't ask them, they don't know. Ask someone called David Young!

 

 

[Nobody]

This is email from the SAAA I received.

 

 

 

 

AirVenture 2017

Is it On? Or is it Not?

Dear Members and fellow aviators,

 

Airventure Australia is it On or Off - SAAA don't know.

 

SAAA have done our very best to address our Corporate governance and protect our Members interests.

 

SAAA are listed on the Airventure Australia website as an event organiser along with RAAus, but SAAA are precluded from that role.

 

SAAA are one of four beneficiaries in the Oz-Kosh Trust.

 

The Oz-Kosh Trustee is AVA Pty Ltd of whom there is a single shareholder and director, Mr David Young.

 

The event Organiser is Mr David Young, and he is the only person whom knows.

 

If you are concerned about confirming your travel arrangements to Narromine please contact Mr David Young for confirmation of the event.

 

Airventure Australia -INFORMATION

 

[email protected]

[Downunder]

Less than 2 months to go........

 

Many people travelling interstate need plenty of time to organise the trip.

 

No "Program of Events" yet..... AirVenture Australia .......

 

No "Seminars & workshops" named.... AirVenture Australia .....

 

Lots of hoopla and hot air but nothing of any substance giving reasons to go........

 

 

[robinsm]

Raa Aus had it, stuffed it, tried again with another player, now its stuffed again. Maybe someone will learn eventually. Its not rocket science, its about RECREATIONAL flying, not big business, empire building or huge sums of money. Dont tgive me the "move with the times" garbage, look what happens when big business, empire building and ego's get involved. Disgusted by the whole deal.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Given the current situation, will you be planning on attending?

Don't see that's relevant, it's either on or it's off, and then you make a decision from there.

 

I couldn't give a toss about the surrounding high school bollshit.

 

Its .... not big business, empire building or huge sums of money. Dont tgive me the "move with the times" garbage, look what happens when big business, empire building and ego's get involved.

That about sums it up, bored men with lots of time thinking it has to be more complicated than it is. What you need, and a lot of people hate it, is a dictator, but one who keeps it simple of course.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Don't see that's relevant, it's either on or it's off, and then you make a decision from there.I couldn't give a toss about the surrounding high school bollshit.

That about sums it up, bored men with lots of time thinking it has to be more complicated than it is. What you need, and a lot of people hate it, is a dictator, but one who keeps it simple of course.

If you look back to the successful Natflys, RAA had one of those but squeezed her out.

 

 

[robinsm]

If you look back to the successful Natflys, RAA had one of those but squeezed her out.

Yep, squeezed out because she was successful and those idiots in power had their nose put out of joint because their ego's weren't being stroked. The events she organised were very successful. The old story..".how to fail at aeroshows"...get a successful one organised by some who actually cares, take it off her and give it to a committee to appease their ego's.. Well done idiots...

 

 

[billwoodmason]

The average RAA member was happy with a low key get together amongst its peers without the bells and whistles air shows or CASA doing ramp checks just to show you what you're doing wrong. Ramp checks at a flyin are about as popular or welcome as a pimple on your a--e. Any wonder they are universally disliked. CASA would be better served by simply having a site to promote what they do for recreational aviation. (probably an oximoron statement).

 

This joint effort encompassing RAA and SAAA is trying to promote the idea of one overarching body for all rec flying up to 1500 kgs. Beware SAAA. The RAA chairman is a vulture wanting to empire build at your expense.

 

 

[jetjr]

Might be some selective memories there

 

Natfly failed because people didnt show up. Was declining for some time.

 

Pretty sure RAA stood to loose a heap of money if the dice was rolled again. They went and backed the almost failing SAAA event in NRM and saved it that year for less risk and less money.

 

None of which reflects on hard working volunteers but would have had it pushed onwards.

 

Quite possible there isnt scale to run several stand alone recreational bodies.

 

 

[bushcaddy105]

At risk of being accused of living in the past:-

 

When I started flying in the early 1990's, we used to drive to the FLY-INS at Mangalore and then Narromine. After building my own wings in the early 2000's I flew to the FLY-INS at Narromine and then Temora. What corporate funding did these require? Any commercial enterprises wishing to advertise their wares paid for a site, local enterprises and charity groups profited from the catering, and we had hundreds of aircraft fly in and we all had a good time. Any "airshow" was impromptu and cost nothing.

 

Each 2 years we went to the AIRSHOW at Avalon to see the big (read "expensive") displays both static and airborne. I flew in to 3 Avalons and thoroughly enjoyed them for what they were. The 2 events were distinct and separate and served different purposes.

 

The above formula worked well , so how and why did we get to the current farcical situation? I did fly in to OzKosh 2016, and thought that perhaps we were heading back in the right direction. I had planned to be at Airventure Australia 2017 in the hope of it being bigger and better than last year, but in light of recent developments and lack of transparent organization I have cancelled these plans.

 

Sorry folks, but I think we have collectively lost the plot.