The shiny new-look RAA?

[turboplanner]

You might be correct, but you have to count the trees first to decide if you have a forest, or putting it another way, if the basic numbers are not there, or not correct, it would be easy to go off at a tangent. I'm not saying what you're talking about shouldn't be debated, but this is the first I've seen of any real discussions based on published evidence, which is either there, or missing, or either correct or wrong. Maybe you can start a separate thread on it, but if we get too far away from those raw annual report figures, the obfuscaters will have won again.

 

 

[bull]

Kasper: I can't answer your question; I haven't looked at the requirements for 95:10 kits, because, to be honest, I have no interest in this area of flying. Prima facie it seems incongruous.

Self explanatory Oscar,as we know where you stand............

 

 

[bull]

RAA didnt run Ausfly so the fence cost them nothingThey were one of several sponsors, not even the largest,

Really should attend RAA meeting or watch one as these points are raisd and answered at each one

 

What exactly do you want to cut out to bring RAA into profit? Wages, salary? Who would run it?

 

Capable people cost money and with the amount of pointless complaining that goes on, who would want the job?

 

The management isnt there to become friends with everyone of 8000 members, RAA was in deep trouble based on previous mismanagement and it will take time and pain to get out.

Ok , well as you say 8000 members , and a deficit with our educated well paid executive team we have now,,is a bit different to over 10 000 members and a 2+ million dollar bank account with the old raggetty self serving mismanagement you say where too dumb to run the show ah,,,,,

 

 

[turboplanner]

Ok , well as you say 8000 members , and a deficit with our educated well paid executive team we have now,,is a bit different to over 10 000 members and a 2+ million dollar bank account with the old raggetty self serving mismanagement you say where too dumb to run the show ah,,,,,

Don't listen to him, go to the Annual Report - there are 9,000 members.

 

 

[Oscar]

What I find disturbing about the continuing management of the RAA is the exec/board seem to be asleep at the wheel again. This data is from November's sport pilot.How does the RAA jump from 207k hours to 380k in one year, keep in mind there has been no significant increase in membership? It looks like the new management system is grossly inaccurate and no one cares. Previous variations have been relatively benign. I would have thought someone would have checked this before publishing. There are a few other errors in the report which I won't bore you with that also slipped past the careful eyes of the management.

 

[ATTACH=full]53310[/ATTACH]

It doesn't take a vast leap of imagination to suggest that for the first half at least of 2016, 1/3rd of the RAA fleet - Jabirus - flew very, very limited hours. Especially for training, for which Jabbies were way the greatest component.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

do the mathes oscar. 170,000 extra hours. that's a lot of bulls

 

 

[bull]

do the mathes oscar. 170,000 extra hours. that's a lot of bulls

they do tend to make vinegar sound like wine sometimes, they just cant help themselves................ lol

[bull]

 

It doesn't take a vast leap of imagination to suggest that for the first half at least of 2016, 1/3rd of the RAA fleet - Jabirus - flew very, very limited hours. Especially for training, for which Jabbies were way the greatest component.

Still trying to make square pegs fit into round holes Oscar??edit[not attacking the man mods] humour,,,,ok but please mod me if I require it cheers

 

 

[Oscar]

do the mathes oscar. 170,000 extra hours. that's a lot of bulls

Oh, thanks to Turbs's analysis and information, the maths is pretty simple.

 

Going by this forum, there are about 8,995 RAA members who are sufficiently satisfied with how RAA is travelling, that they do not choose to engage in debate about it. (I am not one, I am not a current member of RAA) There appears to be about five - assuming all are RAA members - dissatisfied and querulous.

 

 

[bull]

Oh, thanks to Turbs's analysis and information, the maths is pretty simple.Going by this forum, there are about 8,995 RAA members who are sufficiently satisfied with how RAA is travelling, that they do not choose to engage in debate about it. (I am not one, I am not a current member of RAA) There appears to be about five - assuming all are RAA members - dissatisfied and querulous.

So not being a member how come you are so vocal about the direction raa is going and how you personally think it is such a good direction ?? are you hoping to jump ship as you grow older and still use the aircraft you desire??? And using the example you just provided do you think that discussion about and questioning of things that the RAA management are doing is something that people should not engage in at all??

 

 

[Yenn]

How can anyone work out from this forum, how many are satisfied or dissatisfied with RAAus. Here we have only a small sample and those are also the vocal few. I believe I am the only member from my airstrip who comments here, but there are 8 others from whom you never hear.

 

 

[bull]

How can anyone work out from this forum, how many are satisfied or dissatisfied with RAAus. Here we have only a small sample and those are also the vocal few. I believe I am the only member from my airstrip who comments here, but there are 8 others from whom you never hear.

Exactly the same here Yenn , over 10 members fly from where I used to fly from and they are all just totally fed up with RAA and are just waiting to jump ship......................

 

 

[facthunter]

You can assume that some say little and just give up and leave. When very little improves year after year and it looks as if you will get only "more of the same".. the outcome seems predictable to me. ie WE , Our lot, won't grow. If WE absorb other's that not growth of the movement. Taking over something that's dying or shrinking isn't a plus for many reasons. if there's dissention and conflict in that. you won't serve your base as well as you otherwise would and staff No's and costs increase per person. Nev

 

 

[bull]

You can assume that some say little and just give up and leave. When very little improves year after year and it looks as if you will get only "more of the same".. the outcome seems predictable to me. ie WE , Our lot, won't grow. If WE absorb other's that not growth of the movement. Taking over something that's dying or shrinking isn't a plus for many reasons. if there's dissention and conflict in that. you won't serve your base as well as you otherwise would and staff No's and costs increase per person. Nev

A very sad downwards spiral, seems to be the only future of raa unless change to the direction occurs

 

 

[frank marriott]

Remember the plan was 5 (with a max of 7) we only got 7 because of the "outgoing" board. If you think you know everything then you don't want other opinions to which may not fit into your perfect plan (even if it only in your own mind). We have what we deserve.

 

 

[gandalph]

Remember the plan was 5 (with a max of 7) we only got 7 because of the "outgoing" board. If you think you know everything then you don't want other opinions to which may not fit into your perfect plan (even if it only in your own mind). We have what we deserve.

Another way to view it is that we have what the majority of those who got off their behinds and cast their vote, voted for. Until voting in RAA elections becomes compulsory that's how the views of the RAA electorate will be reflected. Whether the results of that election reflect the view of the majority of members won't ever be settled to every ones satisfaction, however, it is the view of the majority of those that voted. That's a simple form of democracy. If you don't like the result, either stand for election or rally enough support to put forward candidates that reflect your views.

There is another embryo organisation being set up that claims it will do better than the RAA. So wouldn't it make sense for those who take the time and effort to point out here the shortcomings of the RAA, if they used some of that time and effort to give some concrete support to the fledgling organisation to help get it up and running?

 

 

[facthunter]

The structure of the NEW show is all power to the owners, not the customers. I'm happy to hear more FACTS, as they are available. Have the CASA ever put out "anything" about all this? Do THEY want to get rid of GA? Do they pay the organisations who do work on their behalf, as they used to? ( and still should). Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Another way to view it is that we have what the majority of those who got off their behinds and cast their vote, voted for. Until voting in RAA elections becomes compulsory that's how the views of the RAA electorate will be reflected. Whether the results of that election reflect the view of the majority of members won't ever be settled to every ones satisfaction, however, it is the view of the majority of those that voted. That's a simple form of democracy. If you don't like the result, either stand for election or rally enough support to put forward candidates that reflect your views.There is another embryo organisation being set up that claims it will do better than the RAA. So wouldn't it make sense for those who take the time and effort to point out here the shortcomings of the RAA, if they used some of that time and effort to give some concrete support to the fledgling organisation to help get it up and running?

Well I think the total who voted may have been around 1.5% of the 9000 members, but we were talking about performance in line with the heading of this thread.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Oh, thanks to Turbs's analysis and information, the maths is pretty simple.Going by this forum, there are about 8,995 RAA members who are sufficiently satisfied with how RAA is travelling, that they do not choose to engage in debate about it. (I am not one, I am not a current member of RAA) There appears to be about five - assuming all are RAA members - dissatisfied and querulous.

We were having a reasonable discussion about performance figures, which have been sourced from official documents.

 

I'd suggest many of those 8,995 people have not been made aware that they have a responsibility to take a close look at how their future is being managed.

 

 

 

[gandalph]

Well I think the total who voted may have been around 1.5% of the 9000 members, but we were talking about performance in line with the heading of this thread.

I doesn't matter if it was 0.25% who voted, they were the ones who CHOSE TO VOTE. Do we now choose to believe that we know the wishes of the non voters? I'm all for reasoned and rational dissent but I struggle to append those labels to some (and I stress some) of the posts published here. I wonder if those who have concerns about what they see as the adverse direction the current Board is taking the RAA have taken the time voice those concerns to their ELECTED representatives or do they chose simply to use this social media channel to voice their concerns. (edited..mod)

It is a common cry that Governments are elected by the people but are directed by the media. Is that what we are trying to do here?

 

This is a great forum for social interaction and learning from the experience of others but do we really expect it to be an effective tool for change?

 

 

[frank marriott]

I wonder if those who have concerns about what they see as the adverse direction the current Board is taking the RAA have taken the time voice those concerns to their ELECTED representatives o

Therein lies the problem. Raising a point with an unknown person from "somewhere" cannot work - even in politics you have a local member to contact and discuss your individual concerns.

 

I accept that people, like yourself, support the new approach which is fine, I just happen to have a different opinion - publically promoted by Linke/Monk/Ramsay with their election by post code comments.

 

I have NO interest in debating the subject as anyone can make up their own minds as to whether the current approach is better or not - I merely pointed out a fact.

 

As for "why not stand if you don't agree", I remind you I was the elected rep for NQ prior to the change and as I feel so strongly about/against the direction taken there is NO way I would consider being part of it.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I just hope your overt support is proved to be correct and my opinion proves to be unfounded - I obviously have reservations.

 

 

[Keith Page]

How can anyone work out from this forum, how many are satisfied or dissatisfied with RAAus. Here we have only a small sample and those are also the vocal few. I believe I am the only member from my airstrip who comments here, but there are 8 others from whom you never hear.

Yes Yen. By all the noise on this post one would think this is a complete view of RAAus, this is only about 5 of 7,000 to me that is not a cross section to get a good view.

I would like to know the views of those who flick by the posts and have a read and move on, to me that will be a better poll.

 

Oscar comes to mind he is not in the voting as he is not a member of RAAus.

 

KP.

 

 

[billwoodmason]

How can anyone work out from this forum, how many are satisfied or dissatisfied with RAAus. Here we have only a small sample and those are also the vocal few. I believe I am the only member from my airstrip who comments here, but there are 8 others from whom you never hear.

Make no mistake - there is a simmering scepticism amongst many of the members I know and from strangers I meet on my travels relating directly to recent past events and the actions/directions of the current chairman and board. Very few of those I know post on this forum, but they are out there silently watching RAA transform into something no one ever thought would come from our very own management. We have been hoodwinked by people headhunted to bring RAA into what CASA want us to be. We have no effective voice anymore to have input into our future all engineered by Monke and Co. He will go down in history as the single biggest destroyer of recreational flying ever.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I'm surprised the RAA isn't larger to be honest, the old board was removed a long time ago now and the new team/new plan has been on the ground running for a while and there hasn't been a lot of growth in members.

 

 

[facthunter]

That is true , and I expect the "New Look management" people would have expected a better result in that area. I'm more concerned to see where CASA will go. That has the biggest effect on people staying or going with Non Airline aviation.is the impression I'm getting. Nev