hihosland Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 An Etihad (787?) flight turns back after encountering sever turbulence one hour out of Perth. I wonder what indicators are available to the flight deck of over stress or other damage that might have caused them to decide to turn back.
facthunter Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 Wing tips touching together above you? Nev 1 9
fly_tornado Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 the duty free booze fell out of the overhead bins and injured some passengers 1 2
kaz3g Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 The last several weeks have seen weather, especially in Victoria, where severe turbulence events have occurred. Turbulence is something I would like to know more about so I can properly understand the dangers it presents. It wasn't something I learned in my PPL beyond a warning to "stay out of the yellow if it's rough upstairs". We have an Aerocommander here week nights doing the bank run and I sometimes think about the pilot on winter nights when storms are about. I saw the results for one of this type at Clonbinane near Mt Disappointment some years ago. I'm sure it was nothing to do with the Aerocommander and everything to do with the conditions it encountered. ------------------- Two dead in light plane crash By Jamie Duncan July 31, 2007 10:22pm Article from: AAP TWO people have died in a light plane crash north of Melbourne. The wreckage of a twin-engined Aero Commander was found by a search helicopter crew in trees near the tiny town of Clonbinane, near Wandong, about 60km north of Melbourne, about 9.45pm (AEST) today, Victoria Police spokesman Wayne Wilson said. There were no other people on board the flight. The identities of the victims are not yet known. Police believe the fatal flight took off from Essendon Airport bound for Shepparton, 180km northeast of Melbourne. A search for the aircraft was sparked in the Wandong-Mt Disappointment area after residents reported hearing a light plane in trouble, followed by an explosion, about 8.20pm. The plane came down near Drag Hill and Raynors roads, south of Clonbinane and northwest of Mt Disappointment. Earlier tonight, the weather bureau issued a severe weather warning for western and central districts of Victoria, including the crash site, for severe winds averaging 75km/h with gusts to 110km/h, especially in elevated areas. The area is near the top of the Great Dividing Range. Monument Hill, a short distance west of the crash site, rises to 480m above sea level. Police have sealed off the area and are awaiting the arrival of crash investigators. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22169185-2,00.html ------------------- Media releases: 09 November 2009 - 2009/13: Pilots reminded to be aware when operating in areas of known or forecast turbulence (Media releases: 09 November 2009 - 2009/13: Pilots reminded to be aware when operating in areas of known or forecast turbulence) Media Release 2009/13: Pilots reminded to be aware when operating in areas of known or forecast turbulence 09 November 2009 The investigation of an in-flight breakup that occurred near Clombinane, Victoria on 31 July 2007 has found that it most likely resulted from an encounter with localised and intense turbulence, from an elevator control input, or from a combination of both. The accident resulted in the death of the pilot and passenger on board the Rockwell International Aero Commander 500-S aircraft on a business flight from Essendon Airport to Shepparton. As a result of its investigation, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau reissued the publication Mountain Wave Turbulence (available for download at www.atsb.gov.au (Mountain wave turbulence)), distributed the investigation report to all Australian operators of the Aero Commander aircraft, and issued a safety advisory notice to aircraft operators and pilots. That notice encouraged aircraft operators to review their procedures to ensure an appropriate awareness amongst operating personnel of the implications for aircraft performance of the combination of aircraft weights and speed, and of the ambient conditions; in particular, when flying in, or near areas of forecast severe turbulence. The investigation found that some pilots operating the aircraft type were generally unaware of the applicability of the aircraft's manoeuvring speed during flight through turbulence, despite the inclusion of relevant advisory information in the operator's documentation. There was also a concern that pilots generally may not have been exercising as much caution in forecast severe turbulence conditions as they would for thunderstorms, even though the intensity of the turbulence could be similar. At the time of the in-flight breakup, special weather reports for severe turbulence and severe mountain waves were current for the area. Wind speeds on the ground were reported to be 50 kts and calculations using the recorded radar data and forecast wind showed that the aircraft had been in cruise flight at 7,000 ft above mean sea level at speeds probably greater than its published manoeuvring speed, prior to it disappearing from radar. The wreckage and its distribution pattern were consistent with an in-flight breakup during cruise flight. There was no evidence of any pre-existing defect, corrosion or fatigue found in the aircraft structure. An examination of the wreckage and fracture surfaces showed that the aircraft structure failed under symmetrical negative overstress. A full report is available from the ATSB website Aviation Occurrence AO-2007-029 ------------------ Makes you think! Kaz 2
onetrack Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 The 150% overload stress test on the Dreamliner looks pretty reassuring. Perhaps they turned back to replace two pairs of brown-soiled trousers? https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/2010/03/index.jpg 1 1
djpacro Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 Turbulence is something I would like to know more about so I can properly understand the dangers it presents.It wasn't something I learned in my PPL beyond a warning to "stay out of the yellow if it's rough upstairs" page 5-37 of Chapter 5 expands a little bit on that here Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge 1 1
onetrack Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 the duty free booze fell out of the overhead bins and injured some passengers Nearly right! "I thought I was going to die!" "All my duty free alcohol broke!" 'I thought I was actually going to die'
bexrbetter Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 I was on a bad one in China, felt like we were hitting foot high gutters square on on a bicycle. One young lady get bounced up pretty high, wear your damn seat belt when the sign comes on. At least one advantage, the fear shut the Chinese up for a change, it was dead silent. 1
kaz3g Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 page 5-37 of Chapter 5 expands a little bit on that here Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge Thanks djp...I have been familiar with convection and orographic turbulence from gliding activities but was intrigued by the extent of surface friction turbulence and the extent to which wind direction and gust strength varied with altitude in flat country as I headed north. I found a bit of a discussion here https://digital.nmla.metoffice.gov.uk/download/file/sdb%3AdigitalFile%7C46dbdd1d-c4c1-41e7-a3ba-4648596fc5e4/ Kaz
facthunter Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 Dust devils, (swirling columns, Sometimes without dust) pose a significant risk to us especially when landing, as well as severe turbulence downwind of mountains. Sea breezes overcoming a prevailing wind from near opposite direction too, and the "Cold" frontal situation in Southern Australia. All well worth avoiding. Thunderstorms if well developed should be avoided even up to 30 miles downwind as you may encounter hail in clear air from the blown out (anvil Cirrus) tops at high altitudes coming to your level. Getting more knowledge about weather is a significant part of being a good airman/person, unless you limit your activity to a local aspect. Nev 1
alf jessup Posted September 15, 2017 Posted September 15, 2017 An Etihad (787?) flight turns back after encountering sever turbulence one hour out of Perth.I wonder what indicators are available to the flight deck of over stress or other damage that might have caused them to decide to turn back. Hmmmmm maybe?????? The contents of the lavatories came back up through the opening from which they were recently deposited in and began flowing down between the seats changing the isle carpet colour for which in turn then mingled with the fresh foul smelling odour from all of the flight crew and every passenger onboard, this mind you included the seat decor changing from ocean blue to a off colour brown after the encounter with the sever turbulence. Was this enough for the captain to think the aircraft may have been over stressed
phantom1959 Posted October 7, 2017 Posted October 7, 2017 The last several weeks have seen weather, especially in Victoria, where severe turbulence events have occurred.Turbulence is something I would like to know more about so I can properly understand the dangers it presents. It wasn't something I learned in my PPL beyond a warning to "stay out of the yellow if it's rough upstairs". We have an Aerocommander here week nights doing the bank run and I sometimes think about the pilot on winter nights when storms are about. I saw the results for one of this type at Clonbinane near Mt Disappointment some years ago. I'm sure it was nothing to do with the Aerocommander and everything to do with the conditions it encountered. ------------------- Two dead in light plane crash By Jamie Duncan July 31, 2007 10:22pm Article from: AAP TWO people have died in a light plane crash north of Melbourne. The wreckage of a twin-engined Aero Commander was found by a search helicopter crew in trees near the tiny town of Clonbinane, near Wandong, about 60km north of Melbourne, about 9.45pm (AEST) today, Victoria Police spokesman Wayne Wilson said. There were no other people on board the flight. The identities of the victims are not yet known. Police believe the fatal flight took off from Essendon Airport bound for Shepparton, 180km northeast of Melbourne. A search for the aircraft was sparked in the Wandong-Mt Disappointment area after residents reported hearing a light plane in trouble, followed by an explosion, about 8.20pm. The plane came down near Drag Hill and Raynors roads, south of Clonbinane and northwest of Mt Disappointment. Earlier tonight, the weather bureau issued a severe weather warning for western and central districts of Victoria, including the crash site, for severe winds averaging 75km/h with gusts to 110km/h, especially in elevated areas. The area is near the top of the Great Dividing Range. Monument Hill, a short distance west of the crash site, rises to 480m above sea level. Police have sealed off the area and are awaiting the arrival of crash investigators. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22169185-2,00.html ------------------- Media releases: 09 November 2009 - 2009/13: Pilots reminded to be aware when operating in areas of known or forecast turbulence (Media releases: 09 November 2009 - 2009/13: Pilots reminded to be aware when operating in areas of known or forecast turbulence) Media Release 2009/13: Pilots reminded to be aware when operating in areas of known or forecast turbulence 09 November 2009 The investigation of an in-flight breakup that occurred near Clombinane, Victoria on 31 July 2007 has found that it most likely resulted from an encounter with localised and intense turbulence, from an elevator control input, or from a combination of both. The accident resulted in the death of the pilot and passenger on board the Rockwell International Aero Commander 500-S aircraft on a business flight from Essendon Airport to Shepparton. As a result of its investigation, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau reissued the publication Mountain Wave Turbulence (available for download at www.atsb.gov.au (Mountain wave turbulence)), distributed the investigation report to all Australian operators of the Aero Commander aircraft, and issued a safety advisory notice to aircraft operators and pilots. That notice encouraged aircraft operators to review their procedures to ensure an appropriate awareness amongst operating personnel of the implications for aircraft performance of the combination of aircraft weights and speed, and of the ambient conditions; in particular, when flying in, or near areas of forecast severe turbulence. The investigation found that some pilots operating the aircraft type were generally unaware of the applicability of the aircraft's manoeuvring speed during flight through turbulence, despite the inclusion of relevant advisory information in the operator's documentation. There was also a concern that pilots generally may not have been exercising as much caution in forecast severe turbulence conditions as they would for thunderstorms, even though the intensity of the turbulence could be similar. At the time of the in-flight breakup, special weather reports for severe turbulence and severe mountain waves were current for the area. Wind speeds on the ground were reported to be 50 kts and calculations using the recorded radar data and forecast wind showed that the aircraft had been in cruise flight at 7,000 ft above mean sea level at speeds probably greater than its published manoeuvring speed, prior to it disappearing from radar. The wreckage and its distribution pattern were consistent with an in-flight breakup during cruise flight. There was no evidence of any pre-existing defect, corrosion or fatigue found in the aircraft structure. An examination of the wreckage and fracture surfaces showed that the aircraft structure failed under symmetrical negative overstress. A full report is available from the ATSB website Aviation Occurrence AO-2007-029 ------------------ Makes you think! Kaz I was working that night (ATC) it was a very sad night. Steve (owner of G.A.M) and his pilot were killed. Apart from the weather - appalling - there was a well known issue with the aircraft (type) Can't believe it was almost 10 years ago. 1 1
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