Engine failures

[NT5224]

Something we all dread, especially over Tiger Country.

 

Much flight training is directed to preparing us for the possibility that the fan at the front end (or overhead, or behind) goes quiet. But with newer aircraft designs and engines becoming -at least theoretically- more reliable, the likelihood of an engine failure seems to be declining since the days of two stroke...

 

But how often do engine failures and emergency landings actually occur among our aircraft types and how well do we manage them? I've had one in a couple of hundred hundred hours and am obviously here to tell the tale..

 

Would love to know whether (or how often) folks have experienced complete or partial engine failures and what happened? Did the emergency landing go as planned? Any thoughts or lessons learned for the less experienced would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Alan

 

 

[Downunder]

Read a bit about "normalization of deviance".

 

I know someone who habitually flys low. They are probably often seconds from being dead. (I have warned them)

 

Because an engine failure has not happened they believe it won't happen.

 

They are using the past to justify current and future behaviour when the opposite is probably true.

 

The more they take the risk, the more likely a bad outcome will occur.

 

Personally, I fly high. The bigger the glide radius, the better......and (knock on wood) no engine failure in 500 hrs....

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Practise glide circuits and power-off landings. Know your aircraft's engine-out performance. While flying, always have a landing ground selected. Keep an eye out for smoke and dust so you can land into the wind. Be prepared for the aircraft flipping over on landing- have an evacuation plan.

 

 

[shafs64]

Yes same here pull the power off at random places and see if you can make the runway. I have watched one of the forum members YouTube videos he flys a gt500 he keeps his pattern work high and tight

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't fly over tiger country . If you depart an aerodrome like Mt Hotham, where there's no immediate landing place do a circling climb till you can range to somewhere better if the donk stops, or return to where you departed. If you are the sort of person who just accepts if the motor stops you will probably die, that's ok if you are fair dinkum, and you are really prepared to accept the consequences. Perhaps your passenger is similarly a fatalist, but I doubt you'd get two in a row. I check the plane carefully and don't fly near storms also. If that makes me some sort of wimp I'll wear that. Better to be a live wimp than a dead hero. Maybe my passengers have appreciated that too.. You MAKE your own luck. by and large. It's worked for me for a long while now.. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

I don't fly over tiger country . If you depart an aerodrome like Mt Hotham, where there's no immediate landing place do a circling climb till you can range to somewhere better if the donk stops, or return to where you departed.

Second to not flying from ANY runway which does not give you EFATO space, this is a brilliant technique to build into your subconscious.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Practise pulling the big red lever that releases your parachute.

 

P Be prepared for the aircraft flipping over on landing- have an evacuation plan.

Fit a bloody roll bar or that point is, and has sadly proven to be moot.

 

 

[poteroo]

Second to not flying from ANY runway which does not give you EFATO space, this is a brilliant technique to build into your subconscious.

Agree. Where it really is tiger country - the circling climb to cruising level is prudent. Out in the real inland regions, a circling climb with an overhead departure is a smart way to ensure you depart 'on track', and with an engine that has already run for several minutes more under power without any disturbing noises or indications. happy days,

 

 

[Teckair]

I have survived a lot of engine failures and not been hurt I believe because I practice glide approaches and avoid places where you cannot do a emergency landing.

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes .. Other circuit traffic comes into it as well, but above a place is where a lot of traffic doesn't happen once you are 500 feet above any other likely activity, you are pretty much OK. Use your radio on the correct frequency for any operations in that area.

 

Extensive warm up on cold mornings also for departure over scary stuff. Some engines idle too rich to do this if you don't adopt some mixture leaning technique... but be sure to go to rich prior to applying power on take off run. Some hang a tag on the mixture control as a reminder . Safety... Make it happen. You may not do everything perfect but making the effort is the first move. Learn from each flight you do, if you can. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

I have survived a lot of engine failures and not been hurt I believe because I practice glide approaches and avoid places where you cannot do a emergency landing.

You are probably one of the exceptions; but you only have to go back over the fatalities mentioned on this forum to see the stupidity of operating where en engine failure meant a fatal.

I can think of one where the takeoff was over alpine ash and two died, one which was an illegal commercial, advertised, joyflight operation which was carved out of the bush, and a paying passenger died, along with the optimistic pilot, and one where a pilot was operating out of a small strip surrounded by scrub and died when the obvious occurred, fortunately just killing himself.

 

 

[farri]

I`m on my 6th 2 stroke engine: 2, Rotax 503 and 4, Rotax 582 grey head: I`ve had enough partial and total engine failures, for various reasons, to know what it`s all about, some solo, some with a student on board, walked away every time without breaking the aircraft or being injured.

 

My current engine is a Rotax 503 DCDI that hasn`t missed a beat, however, I treat each and every flight as a new one and accept that just because the engine didn`t fail on the last flight, doesn`t mean it won`t fail on the next flight, I`m ready to deal with an failure from the moment I apply the throttle and I will only fly over tiger country if I can safely glide clear to a suitable landing area, I have always flown this way and will continue to do so.

 

Each situation has it`s own scenario and there`s no magic solution to engine failure, it isn`t just limited to 2 strokes, there`s been numerous failures of 4 strokes`and for various reasons, it`s difficult to give advice to the less experienced, their instructor should have done that and there`s a vast difference between landing safely in a Drifter, or any other AC which has a tail wheel and say, the latest LSA, low wing, with a tricycle undercarriage, but basically, having a suitable landing area and the skill required to fly the aircraft safely to a full stop, is the critical part of surviving an engine failure.

 

Always be prepared for engine failure and regularly practice for it.

 

Frank.

 

 

[REastwood]

I know a guy who flew P51D Mustangs in the 50's, was an instructor, worked for the DCA and is still flying in his 80's, I don't know how many thousands of hours he has flown but he had his first single engine engine failure only recently. You really never know when it will happen!

 

 

[Downunder]

The thing is..... this thread is a one sided view.

 

Those who stuffed up bad enough are not here to post. They are dead.

 

About 10 years ago, an aircraft left Bindoon for Northam. They took off direct for Northam and the engine failed not far from Bindoon.

 

They went down in trees and killed both of them.

 

The passenger was a pilot and briefly a member of this forum and I communicated with him on various topics.

 

It was a big wake up call to me about climbing overhead before departure if required.

 

You roll the dice enough times, your number will come up!

 

 

[Riley]

The thing is..... this thread is a one sided view.Those who stuffed up bad enough are not here to post. They are dead.

About 10 years ago, an aircraft left Bindoon for Northam. They took off direct for Northam and the engine failed not far from Bindoon.

 

They went down in trees and killed both of them.

 

The passenger was a pilot and briefly a member of this forum and I communicated with him on various topics.

 

It was a big wake up call to me about climbing overhead before departure if required.

 

You roll the dice enough times, your number will come up!

Both of the deceased were personal friends to me and without digging into the Coroner's report, engine failure wasn't the cause of that double fatality in the Julimar Forest. It was assessed that the aircraft broke up at altitude as a result of accumulated undue airframe stress. As you pointed out, in that instance, the dice had been rolled once too often by two experienced pilots.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The thing is..... this thread is a one sided view.Those who stuffed up bad enough are not here to post. They are dead...

I like the logic; reminds me of a story from WWII, when the Americans were adding armour plating to their bombers. Instead of protecting areas where returning bombers had bullet holes, they left those bits alone, reasoning that if the aircraft got home with battle damage in that location, others would also.

They beefed up other areas, trying to give a vote to the bombers that didn't make it home.

 

 

[Oscar]

If you are a Glider pilot, you know that every flight beyond gliding range of the home field has the potential for a landing other than where you had planned.

 

Although it was not taught to me as such, I rapidly became used to the idea that potential landing sites relative to current height and glide ratio, was in effect a 'cone' of area, and the centre of that cone was dependent on the local wind. If you are flying into a headwind, then the effective centre of that cone is behind you.. into a cross-wind, then downwind of you. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

 

But wait- there's more! (no steak-knives, however).

 

Some appreciation of the 'local' terrain is really, really necessary. If - for instance - you are flying over an irrigation area ( think: near Narromine or Tocumwal), you have to be aware of the alignment of irrigation ditches/channels. If you are flying around SE Qld, then the presence of single-wire power lines, which are bloody hard to see if you don't know what to look out for. I imagine there are other areas where particular local conditions - say Canefield row orientation - is a major factor. In more diverse country, how to judge an upslope from a downslope..

 

 

[seb7701]

Given that I am not being paid to fly and thus no-one is forcing me to do anything, I see no reason to fly over country that I can neither land amongst or glide clear of! I only do tiger stuff if I can glide clear of can see a suitable spot, otherwise I take a little longer and go 'round.

 

I've had two engine failures, one in a Drifter and the other in my GT500 and can only attest to good training and regular refreshing. By the second one, I was not only fine with where I was going to drop in, but was picking out suitable spots where I could get the trailer in if needed after the fact!! As Downunder said earlier, normalisation of deviance is a very good aspect - get used to forced landings via practice and that's the closest you'll get to being O.K. when the real thing comes along. Some off-airport stuff I reckon would be good too, as it might eliminate the fear factor of landing somewhere that's NOT a nicely prepared airstrip, as it was a little off-putting first time 'round!

 

 

[SSCBD]

I`m on my 6th 2 stroke engine: 2, Rotax 503 and 4, Rotax 582 grey head: I`ve had enough partial and total engine failures, for various reasons, to know what it`s all about, some solo, some with a student on board, walked away every time without breaking the aircraft or being injured.My current engine is a Rotax 503 DCDI that hasn`t missed a beat, however, I treat each and every flight as a new one and accept that just because the engine didn`t fail on the last flight, doesn`t mean it won`t fail on the next flight, I`m ready to deal with an failure from the moment I apply the throttle and I will only fly over tiger country if I can safely glide clear to a suitable landing area, I have always flown this way and will continue to do so.

 

Each situation has it`s own scenario and there`s no magic solution to engine failure, it isn`t just limited to 2 strokes, there`s been numerous failures of 4 strokes`and for various reasons, it`s difficult to give advice to the less experienced, their instructor should have done that and there`s a vast difference between landing safely in a Drifter, or any other AC which has a tail wheel and say, the latest LSA, low wing, with a tricycle undercarriage, but basically, having a suitable landing area and the skill required to fly the aircraft safely to a full stop, is the critical part of surviving an engine failure.

 

Always be prepared for engine failure and regularly practice for it.

 

Frank.

Seriously for once in my life. --- If anyone one wants to learn what to do with engines failures, talk to Farri, he really has the real life experience, - he has had more engine outs and forced landings than birthdays - and that's a lot.

 

AND

 

(now smile, don't worry about the twitch in Franks eye - its from flying tooo many hours with a two stroke, and is a syndrome that two stroke drivers develop called the two stroke twitch. (smile Frank)

 

and by the way Frank did not you use one of those shinny Rotax 503's for an anchor for your boat about 20 years ago?

 

 

[farri]

Seriously for once in my life.

Seriously????????......

 

 

[poteroo]

see no reason to fly over country that I can neither land amongst or glide clear of! I only do tiger stuff if I can glide clear of can see a suitable spot, otherwise I take a little longer and go 'round

I've done the trip Laverton (WA) to Yulara (Ayres Rock) a few times. You can fly direct over double tiger country, or go via Warburton Range and be over a frequently used road for most of the trip. The difference is about 15 minutes at 120 kts - or your life perhaps.

 

I'm also reminded of my yellow streak when looking at my logbook entries for crossing Torres Strait. The 4 ferry flights I did from PNG to Aus were via every island between Saibai and Horn Is, (and that was in the days before most of them had strips).

 

happy days,

 

 

[shafs64]

I've done the trip Laverton (WA) to Yulara (Ayres Rock) a few times. You can fly direct over double tiger country, or go via Warburton Range and be over a frequently used road for most of the trip. The difference is about 15 minutes at 120 kts - or your life perhaps.I'm also reminded of my yellow streak when looking at my logbook entries for crossing Torres Strait. The 4 ferry flights I did from PNG to Aus were via every island between Saibai and Horn Is, (and that was in the days before most of them had strips).

 

happy days,

Better to be a live chicken:clap:

 

 

[kasper]

Reminds me of flight planning across the English Channel by microlight - coastal at 2500 (control step) climb to 6500 by mid Channel the decent to 1000 costal at Cap Gris Ney. Only about 1 mile in the middle I couldn't make it to one side or the other if it went quiet.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I've done the trip Laverton (WA) to Yulara (Ayres Rock) a few times. You can fly direct over double tiger country, or go via Warburton Range ...

I just looked that up on Google Earth. Rough, unforgiving country. Not for me.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I don't fly over tiger country ... If that makes me some sort of wimp I'll wear that. Nev

One of my flying instructors has a saying; "I don't do low flying because I have a back problem ... I have a big yellow stripe down it." Same applies to me.