Two stroke engine ban

[Mike Borgelt]

yeah,

 

We'll have a great electric future when batteries improve. The good ones now are liable to catch fire at inconvenient times. I would not fly in an aircraft that used lithium ion batteries of current tech as its propulsion system. Your built in ballistic parachute isn't going to help. Don't believe the hype.

 

Lithium iron phosphate batteries are much safer but around half the energy density of the current best li-ion batteries.

 

Right now there is an EASA AD out on the FES electric propulsion system for gliders because some of the batteries (Li-ion) were catching fire when not in use. Great. See Samsung phone.

 

Batteries are limited by electrochemistry. There are only so many elements and combinations of elements to make a battery. Hence the lithium batteries we have. There are some batteries using lithium which promise to be safer and have about 400 watt-hours per kilogram energy density but they won't be available until 2020. When looking at these also check the power density i.e. the discharge rate. No good having 5 hours of battery power when you are only getting one fifth of the power to fly.

 

Regulators can strangle all they want but the human race (unlike politicians and lawyers) is bound by the laws of physics.

 

Yes, putting the greenies back in their box is a great idea. Mostly they come up with "solutions" to non problems which the "solutions" turn into real problems.

 

 

[Jim McDowall]

Well put Mike - When batteries in electric cars can match the range of my car (about 900k per tank) at 110kph and the capacity to accelerate from 80 to 110 up a 10% grade I may be convinced that an electric car is a viable option. And maybe I would need to be convinced that the electricity distribution network can accommodate several million cars being charged as well as meet the other community needs but that is a discussion for another forum.

 

 

[winsor68]

No surprises. It has been coming for years. We will survive.

 

 

[facthunter]

Don't bet on it. "some" might survive but we now have the capacity to totally destroy ourselves by wrecking the environment, and overpopulation with social disintegration and unrest. Plastic residue is everywhere . Drugs are chucked down the toilet when not used and end up in the food chain. There's still radioactive residues in the dust of the Australian desert. (1 Microgram of plutonium will kill you) left over from the ridiculous atom bomb test the Brits did here and the prevailing winds put it all over the country. First ever instances of extreme weather events are almost everyday happenings. Massive forest clearing going on at unprecedented rates. Polar ice melting. Sea levels WILL rise. Glaciers are receding.. All sounds like gloom... I'm not the cause .. Only the messenger and I could keep writing but you'd lose interest for several reasons. You already know... and the others who don't want to know. Nev

 

 

[robinsm]

Don't bet on it. "some" might survive but we now have the capacity to totally destroy ourselves by wrecking the environment, and overpopulation with social disintegration and unrest. Plastic residue is everywhere . Drugs are chucked down the toilet when not used and end up in the food chain. There's still radioactive residues in the dust of the Australian desert. (1 Microgram of plutonium will kill you) left over from the ridiculous atom bomb test the Brits did here and the prevailing winds put it all over the country. First ever instances of extreme weather events are almost everyday happenings. Massive forest clearing going on at unprecedented rates. Polar ice melting. Sea levels WILL rise. Glaciers are receding.. All sounds like gloom... I'm not the cause .. Only the messenger and I could keep writing but you'd lose interest for several reasons. You already know... and the others who don't want to know. Nev

so when do I cut my wrists, doesnt seem to be worth it with commercial greed being the mantra for life these days.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

So much for hunting facts.

 

Sea levels have gone up and down since the major rise at the end of the last ice age about 12000 years ago. What we see now is a minor residual from the end of the ice age. Thermopylae is several kilometers inland nowadays.

 

Funny how I don't see plastic residue everywhere. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are thriving cities today

 

We've trashed our forestry industry in Australia when it isn't that hard to figure out a sustainable logging rate and surprise surprise there is radioactive dust everywhere anyway from natural minerals and some of it is alpha emitters like Plutonium is. I figure nuclear weapons saved me from being an infantryman in a bigger, "better" re-run of WW2. Nukes good. Staved off the evil empire.

 

The polar ice in Antarctica isn't melting and the sea ice there has just come off a high maximum. Polar ice at the North Pole doesn't cause sea level rise as it is already floating and Greenland isn't melting, besides it is ringed by mountains. Historical records show the polar ice comes and goes on about a 60 year cycle which seems to be related to major ocean cycles like the AMO and PDO.

 

About the only reasonably certain thing about the extra CO2 in the atmosphere(about 400ppm up from around 300 ppm) is that the planet is greener as the plants are loving it. They also use less water as the leaf stomata which the plants use to breathe are fewer in number and size and hence lose less water.

 

REAL environmental science actually concedes that people (and all other living things) change their environment and endeavors to measure these effects while making a cost/benefit analysis. Sometimes a less than 100% solution is good enough.

 

Green hysteria results in us all being poorer to no avail and guess what? Poor people scrabbling to survive don't care about the environment, just like every other living organism. Green hysteria is an indulgence for the well off.

 

 

[alf jessup]

I have to chuckle on this about Australia banning 2 strokes

 

We a country with 24 million people have a 2 stroke issue?

 

How about someone from our dumb arxe government head to India with a population of 1.2 billion and see how many 2 strokes are used over there

 

You cannot see for the smog and this is just one country in Asia

 

Knee jerk reaction bowing to the Greens

 

Muppets nothing more

 

 

[fly_tornado]

only the stupidest of the stupid believe the greens run the country, you'd have to be stupid to believe the greens run the country.

 

Most industry reforms like this are driven by global trends, big European and American manufacturers are using the law to lock cheaper Asian manufacturers out of global markets.

 

 

[robinsm]

only the stupidest of the stupid believe the greens run the country, you'd have to be stupid to believe the greens run the country.Most industry reforms like this are driven by global trends, big European and American manufacturers are using the law to lock cheaper Asian manufacturers out of global markets.

then there are a lot of us stupid people out there that believe the stupid green are proposing stupid ideas and the stupid politically correct govt and stupid greens loving opposition are stupidly listening to them and their stupid ideas. Seems a stupid statement in the above post. ....

 

 

[alf jessup]

only the stupidest of the stupid believe the greens run the country, you'd have to be stupid to believe the greens run the country.Most industry reforms like this are driven by global trends, big European and American manufacturers are using the law to lock cheaper Asian manufacturers out of global markets.

I'll tell you what FT

I'd rather be stupid than to be you

 

One day maybe just one day you will say something nice about something but I doubt that will ever happen

 

You remind me of someone I used to know

 

Only time he smiled was when someone he knew died

 

Ironic huh

 

 

[fly_tornado]

try the intelligence test: can you explain how the greens are actually doing this? which green is doing this? when did the greens introduce this legislation?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

then there are a lot of us stupid people out there that believe the stupid green are proposing stupid ideas and the stupid politically correct govt and stupid greens loving opposition are stupidly listening to them and their stupid ideas. Seems a stupid statement in the above post. ....

you can fool some of the people, all of the time and all of the people, some of the time.

 

Did you think that you where one when you are the other?

 

 

[alf jessup]

try the intelligence test: can you explain how the greens are actually doing this? which green is doing this? when did the greens introduce this legislation?

Which movement is stopping the forestry a renewable resource industry costing hundreds of jobs in my region alone because of what?? A few possums that are going to die anyway in the uncontrolled bushfires we have down here

Which movement objects to most mining projects wanting to start

 

Which movement holds the presiding governments to ransom for there preference votes

 

The Greens

 

 

[robinsm]

you can fool some of the people, all of the time and all of the people, some of the time.Did you think that you where one when you are the other?

nope, I wasnt the one that posted this rubbish so I know where I am...lol

 

 

[Honkie]

I haven't got many details but apparently our federal Parliament yesterday passed legislation to ban two stroke engines, including lawnmowers, whipper snippers, off road vehicles etc.As ultralights and self launching gliders are "off road vehicles" I can see trouble ahead.

Does anyone believe these idiots won't include them in the ban, all in the name of the green delusion.?

On some rivers, in Alaska, outboards must be 4-stroke of 2-stroke-injection. They believe that outboard motor oil will harm wildlife. The solution, most economically advantageous to boaters, would be to require caster oil be used in outboards for that location. The same would be true for aviation. The ecologically crippled mind knows only heartless and illogical iron clad control. Your health, wealth, well being and even your life are meaningless to these people. After all, they are trying to save planet earth and are too busy protesting and using recreational drugs to sport clean underwear or anything else. In the words of one air defense base first sarge, "Filth breads disease".

 

 

[coljones]

Which movement is stopping the forestry a renewable resource industry costing hundreds of jobs in my region alone because of what?? A few possums that are going to die anyway in the uncontrolled bushfires we have down hereWhich movement objects to most mining projects wanting to start

Which movement holds the presiding governments to ransom for there preference votes

 

The Greens

Actually, it is the National Party, with its gun to the Liberals' head, that is the blight on government, business and community in Australia (and its states)

 

 

[fly_tornado]

my theory why you people hate the greens.

 

the libs are run by the anglicans

 

the labor party by the catholics

 

that just leaves the jews, am I right?

 

 

[red750]

I thought this was a flying forum, and politics was moved to whatsup.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Yes, putting the greenies back in their box is a great idea. Mostly they come up with "solutions" to non problems which the "solutions" turn into real problems.

Yes those Greenies are the problem. If it wasn't for them we'd still be crippling our kids with lead pollution, clogging our roadsides and waterways with litter and clearing the last of our forests.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I have to chuckle on this about Australia banning 2 strokesWe a country with 24 million people have a 2 stroke issue?

How about someone from our dumb arxe government head to India with a population of 1.2 billion and see how many 2 strokes are used over there

 

You cannot see for the smog and this is just one country in Asia

 

Knee jerk reaction bowing to the Greens

 

Muppets nothing more

So, Alf, you'd wait until air pollution was really bad before phasing in cleaner technology?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I thought this was a flying forum, and politics was moved to whatsup.

Instead of accepting the fact that manufacturers use legislation to protect markets, often with positive outcomes for society and for people that don't use their products, you people seem to see the green/bolshevic threat everywhere.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Which movement is stopping the forestry a renewable resource industry costing hundreds of jobs in my region alone because of what?? A few possums that are going to die anyway in the uncontrolled bushfires we have down hereWhich movement objects to most mining projects wanting to start

Which movement holds the presiding governments to ransom for there preference votes

 

The Greens

Alf I actually agree re forestry. Coming from a timber town, I have followed the stupidity of government mismanagement of our forests. Yes, its true that mobs of jobs have been lost due to broad-brush approaches of governments. You can blame the Greens, but you'd also have to blame the average voter who doesn't know the difference between sustainable selective logging and clear felling for woodchips.

 

If you despise the Green minority for having undo influence over governments, then you should absolutely hate the right-wing church and coal-mining lobbies for manipulating of our political system.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Actually, it is the National Party, with its gun to the Liberals' head, that is the blight on government, business and community in Australia (and its states)

At their Conference last week, the Nationals voted to phase out all subsidies for renewable energy and build more coal-burning power stations. Meanwhile, the Government wants to subsidise AGL to keep Liddel PS open for another decade.

They've lost the plot! They sold off our power industry because they claimed private industry could run it more efficiently; when private industry want to get out of coal and into renewables they throw public money to stop them!

 

 

[spacesailor]

Old Koreelah

 

"you'd wait until air pollution was really bad before phasing in cleaner technology"

 

Air pollution in Sydney IS very bad! & it's not motor engines but the "saving us from bush-fires" thats killing people at the moment.

 

next

 

"Non-road spark ignition". Problem solve easily by changing from CDI, to "Ignitor combustion", just like a jet engine uses.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Old Koreelah"you'd wait until air pollution was really bad before phasing in cleaner technology"

Air pollution in Sydney IS very bad! & it's not motor engines but the "saving us from bush-fires" thats killing people at the moment...

Sorry to hear that Spacey. The RFS can't seem to win; if they don't do hazard reduction burns they are blamed for disastrous fires. I don't have a solution, other than removing all homes from near bush land.