Two stroke engine ban

[spacesailor]

SDQDI

 

"I like your opinions so keep them coming"

 

I also agree with this.

 

Timber industry!. Never puts back native tree's, only fast growing pine type trees, causing bad pollution from their spores, that goes straight into your lungs.

 

I would love to see a forest of "Oak trees" Bright orange in autumn, kids running thru the leaves, kicking them every were.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[turboplanner]

Has anyone found the legislation yet?

 

 

[onetrack]

TP - This would appear to be it ...

 

ParlInfo - Product Emissions Standards Bill 2017 [and] Product Emissions Standards (Excise) Charges Bill 2017 [and] Product Emissions Standards (Customs) Charges Bill 2017 [and] Product Emissions Standards (Consequential Provisions) Bill 2017

 

(download the PDF file at top left of the text, just above the ISSN number)

 

The following excerpt is probably the part everyone is looking for ....

 

"The details of the NRSIEE* emission control framework are included on the NRSIEE webpage and the emission standards are based on the United States’ EPA and equivalent international standards and will apply to:

 

 

 

• spark ignition engines rated at 19 kilowatts and below used in household and commercial operations, including: lawn mowers, ride-on mowers, mulchers, brush/line cutters, generators (includes onboard marine), pumps, chain saws, and other small handheld or pushed/pulled equipment

 

• spark ignition engines used in marine vessels including: outboard engines, personal watercraft and stern-drive/inboard engines.

 

 

 

Stationary engines, road vehicles subject to other regulations, and diesel powered engines will not be regulated under this scheme.

 

 

 

The webpage states that the scheme will be phased in and apply to all new NRSIEE imported into Australia from 1 July 2018 and to all new NRSIEE supplied to the Australian market from 1 July 2019."

 

 

 

*[NRSIEE = non-road spark ignition engines and equipment]

 

So ... to ease Mikes rage - there is no total "ban" on 2 strokes in this Bill - only on the sale of new NRSIEE, that cannot meet current emissions laws, that currently apply to on-road, automotive spark ignition engines.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

That`s another rating, he`ll need!!!!

See there's the ignorance right there.

 

There are 2 strokes that are no different in operation to a 4 stroke, but just the title "2 stroke" is enough to force different regulations.

 

 

[turboplanner]

From the link provided by OneTrack

 

There are several Bills being processed. They only create a framework; almost all the details is to be set out in the Rules.

 

The rules will include emission standards for Particulate Matter, Nitrides of Oxygen, and Hydrocarbons.

 

Australia has not adopted NRSIEE emission standards yet.

 

NRSIEE standards are based on USEPA standards and apply to:

 

(a) Spark ignition engines rated at 19kW and below, used in household & commercial operations including:

 

• lawn mowers
   
   
  
• ride-on mowers
   
   
  
• mulchers
   
   
  
• brush/line cutters
   
   
  
• generators (outboard marine)
   
   
  
• pumps
   
   
  
• chain saws
   
   
  
• other small hand-held or pushed/pulled equipment
   
   
  

 

 

 

(b) Spark ignition engines used in marine vessels including:

 

• outboard engines
   
   
  
• personal watercraft
   
   
  
• stern-drive/inboard engines
   
   
  

 

 

[Note the 19 kW limit is not mentioned for this group]

 

Stationary engines, road vehicles subject to other regulations and diesel powered engines will not be regulated under this scheme.

 

This applies to all new NRSIEE imported into Australia from 1/7/18 and to:

 

All new NRSIEE supplied to the Australian market from 1/7/19

 

It will apply to exhaust or evaporative emissions.

 

"The proposed standards are performance rather than technology-based. In general, four stroke and direct-injection two-stroke engines will meet the standards, as will a range of low-emitting two-stroke handheld equipment (e.g. some chain saws & brush cutters).

 

"Conventional two-stroke outboard and non-handheld equipment such as mowers would not meet the new standards"

 

So this thread title "Two stroke engine ban" is not correct; the emission legislation is performance-based, just as it is in the automotive and transport industries.

 

And ample time is allowed for distributors to sell their existing stocks to dealers and dealers to sell their stock to customers, just as it is in the automotive industries.

 

Aircraft engines are not mentioned, and nor are Skimobiles, although once the rules start to apply to PWC, it wouldn't surprise me to see Rotax etc. just building compliant engines across the board (they may even have started to comply with USEPA.

 

In the road industries it has been traditional to let the natural path to the wreckers take its course, and that has protected the family budgets of those who can only afford second hand equipment. I didn't see any requirement to junk existing appliances here either.

 

Since these are Bills, anything could happen in the Parliament, in terms of dates put back, or items added or subtracted from the list.

 

 

[Keith Page]

I haven't got many details but apparently our federal Parliament yesterday passed legislation to ban two stroke engines, including lawnmowers, whipper snippers, off road vehicles etc.As ultralights and self launching gliders are "off road vehicles" I can see trouble ahead.

Does anyone believe these idiots won't include them in the ban, all in the name of the green delusion.?

Was sweet Sarah involved with that rot. Sounds like it.

The 2stroke ban will have a large impact.

 

Tell you the pollies are not smart. What about those very big ships a lot of them are 2stroke and they are the most efficient utilisers of fuel.

 

KP

 

 

[turboplanner]

There's no ban Keith; go back to Post #80.........the one before yours.

 

 

[Keith Page]

There's no ban Keith; go back to Post #80.........the one before yours.

I did not read the thread fully was answering as I went along, Thank you for that.

Still I think it is rot playing around with legislation for 2strokes.

 

Some of the nation's industry was started with 2strokes. What is so irritating the experts go and ban something however the replacement has a larger carbon foot print during manufacture. Sort that one out.

 

KP.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I did not read the thread fully was answering as I went along, Thank you for that.Still I think it is rot playing around with legislation for 2strokes.

Some of the nation's industry was started with 2strokes. What is so irritating the experts go and ban something however the replacement has a larger carbon foot print during manufacture. Sort that one out.

 

KP.

Keith, please go back, and read the content of my post which was a precis of the link OneTrack provided. On that link there were explanations the emissions involved, and the background to the legislation.

[Stillhere]

And of course in Australia we have heaps of VOCs (volatile organic compounds) from napalm, er gum trees. They ain't called the Blue Mountains for nothing. I suspect a few two strokes are negligible. We are governed by idiots as will become obvious when the lights go out.

Your damn right we are governed by idiots

 

 

[coljones]

Your damn right we are governed by idiots

In a country inhabited by imbeciles!!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Does anyone read posts with factual information?

 

 

[SDQDI]

Does anyone read posts with factual information?

If we all did that Turbs all threads on this website would be a max of 10 replies long:wink:

 

 

[Callahan]

Here in the U.S. they can ban anything but to get a rebel pilot such as me to honor their stupid ass ban is another story.

 

For example, I just installed cop car-like LED strobes on my Drifter. Very bright, very viewable at long distances & very inexpensive! $125 vs. a very minimal aviation approved strobe system that you can barely see at 200 feet away at $600+

 

Are they legal? Hell no.

 

Do I care? Guess.

 

 

[jetjr]

off topic but what strobes did you use and did you have any radio interferance problems?

 

 

[old man emu]

If we are now getting into LED lighting, I suppose we could throw in a 2-stroke engine as a fog machine. Disco never died!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

In a country inhabited by imbeciles!!

Where do you live Col?

 

 

[Marty_d]

Just saw this thread and it's been an interesting read.

 

For anyone who wants to bash greens, support coal or reckon climate change is a joke, I'd like to invite you over to WhatsUpAustralia to have a proper robust discussion about where you get your "facts".

 

I often wonder where the hell idiots like Tony Abbott and George Christensen got support for their backwards, anti-science stances. Guess you don't have to look too far after all.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Marty_d, do you have any science training or qualifications? Physics, chemistry, geology, meteorology, engineering? If not, you likely don't even have the intellectual tools to begin understand the issue.

 

The local pollution issue has been largely solved for both air and water pollution, mostly by 30 years ago. I can remember when the car exhaust emissions were first controlled and it was claimed to be great because the only things coming out the back of the car were harmless water vapour and CO2. Sometimes solving 99% of a problem is good enough.

 

If you are still worried about CO2 you should realise that NONE of the current or proposed measures in place to slow down/prevent/reduce CO2 emissions will have any significant effect by 2100 (or likely ever). Just a few days ago a bunch of climate modellers admitted their models run too hot. In 2009 we saw the release of the UEA computer data which revealed the inner workings of the minds of the climate "scientists" there. Intellectually dishonest bunch of bullies who make up stuff.

 

Last I heard 1500 or so coal fired power stations were under construction or planned around the world. If Australia built 15 new ones we'd have very cheap, reliable electricity and make really no difference to the world. As it is we'll have expensive unreliable electricity and no industry and will all be poor enough that we won't be worrying about private aviation at all.

 

I'm thinking we need to look at the standard of living in Argentina and realise this is the best case for us. Venezuela could be where we are heading though.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Marty_d, do you have any science training or qualifications? Physics, chemistry, geology, meteorology, engineering? If not, you likely don't even have the intellectual tools to begin understand the issue...

Mike do you mean those of us who lack that training should butt out and leave it to qualified scientists- the overwhelming majority of whom say we have a problem and it's caused by us?

 

Good people are coming up with viable solutions. Why then, are you in favour of building even more coal-burning power stations when cleaner, more reliable alternatives exist?

 

Pumped hydro could store 1,000 times more renewable energy than Australia will ever need

 

...In 2009 we saw the release of the UEA computer data which revealed the inner workings of the minds of the climate "scientists" there. Intellectu ally dishonest bunch of bullies who make up stuff...

Pretty strong words, Mike. Even scientists get their data wrong, but they know their work will be publicly reviewed by peers. Does the public ever hear about the dirty back-room deals done to waste public money propping up polluting industries?

The mistakes you seem to be referring to were made eight years ago. Mobs more research and modelling has been done since. Some of the more recent projections are downright alarming, but scientists are too cautious about going public- they don't want to get another pounding from the Murdoch media.

 

Our climate is influenced by so many variables that it's almost impossible to identify a clear long-term trend- one large volcanic eruption could punch enough material into the stratosphere to reverse a decade of warming.

 

Do you want us to keep pumping out the pollution until it's too late?

 

..,If Australia built 15 new ones we'd have very cheap, reliable electricity and make really no difference to the world.

Are you willing to saddle your grandchildren with 15 coal-burners when clean alternatives already exist?

 

As it is we'll have expensive unreliable electricity and no industry...

That's the sort of stuck-in-the-past thinking that lost Australia most of our heavy industry. In the 1950s Australia produced by far the world's cheapest steel. Now we're selling to foreigners who can see the potential we cannot.

Steelmaker teams with Ross Garnaut to run factories using renewable energy

 

...I'm thinking we need to look at the standard of living in Argentina and realise this is the best case for us. Venezuela could be where we are heading though.

You may well be right about that, Mike. They are lots of reasons our good life may soon be over, but I doubt renewable energy will be the cause. Australia is sitting on an unprecedented debt bubble and our economy is badly dependent on exporting minerals to China. Too many of our people produce nothing and as a nation we're not doing nearly enough to prepare for future challenges.

 

 

[Yenn]

That training you mention is just education. Intellectual tools in my mind is intelligence, or ability to use your brain. You do not have to be educated in the sciences to be intelligent, although some of those with a good education may think they are intelligent, when they may not be.

 

 

[DenisPC9]

At their Conference last week, the Nationals voted to phase out all subsidies for renewable energy and build more coal-burning power stations. Meanwhile, the Government wants to subsidise AGL to keep Liddel PS open for another decade.They've lost the plot! They sold off our power industry because they claimed private industry could run it more efficiently; when private industry want to get out of coal and into renewables they throw public money to stop them!

Interesting isn't it. Your and my local member could well be a founding member of "anti-Mensa"

 

 

[DenisPC9]

We are a minuscule polluter compared to Asian countries, do they give a hoot about polluting???"Australia was even more minuscule in 1853 when they introduced the 8 hour day

 

"We are going to make a huge difference our little 24 million inhabitants to the world pollution levels while a majority of the rest of the world don't give a stuff"

 

Australia and New Zealand made a huge difference back in the 1890s when they gave the vote to women. The home of the brave and land of the free didn't give their females the vote until 1928.

 

We get cleaner while they get dirtier but we save the world, I think not

 

I'm all for reliable clean cheap energy but until such time we can get it, keep our poxy little coal fired power stations running

'Ain't going to happen. I reckon they will pour $millions into remedial maintenance and then the machinery will just collapse, soon after. Short of competely replacing everything, replacing bits and pieces in that environment just wont cut it. They have already flogged to death everything at Liddell. And I would say its much the same for every other privatised coal fired power station.

 

 

[DenisPC9]

I hope you have a formation rating SDQDI with that squadron of yoursQuestion, are they 2 or 4 stroke powered? Lol

Whomever put together/designed and approved that formation should stop sniffing the AvGas and try some fresh air

 

 

[DenisPC9]

As in Miami etc there are places where rebuilding is foolish. SOME places are not suitable if you have to rebuild infrastructure in a short timespan. Go somewhere more suitable. That MAY get difficult , but the other is not the answer. Nev

By the looks of it, nature is in the process of straightening out that particular human quirk