Advice on solid riveting

[Marty_d]

Received my replacement 1/8" head (or whatever you call it) from Henchman and started setting the rivets in the side panels under the doors.

 

After 25 rivets my left shoulder is aching and there's still 82 to go in this piece.

 

Anyone got any advice to make it easier? Do you hold both the air tool and the bucking bar, or do you clamp the bucking bar in a vice and hold the work?

 

Any advice gratefully received!

 

Thanks, Marty

 

 

[RetiredRacer]

Are they counter sunk flat head rivets? If they are you could back rivet them. You will need a bit of heavy steel plate or flat. Or even a bit of steel RHS or SHS. With the panels sitting flat, drop some rivets in, run a strip of tape along over the rivets to hold them in (paper type tape like masking tape). Then turn the panel over and carfully place the new rivets on top of the heavy steel plate, the plate now becomes the bucking bar on the head side and this allows you to carefully use the rivet gun to squeeze (hammer) the other side

 

Bob

 

 

[Marty_d]

Are they counter sunk flat head rivets? If they are you could back rivet them. You will need a bit of heavy steel plate or flat. Or even a bit of steel RHS or SHS. With the panels sitting flat, drop some rivets in, run a strip of tape along over the rivets to hold them in (paper type tape like masking tape). Then turn the panel over and carfully place the new rivets on top of the heavy steel plate, the plate now becomes the bucking bar on the head side and this allows you to carefully use the rivet gun to squeeze (hammer) the other sideBob

Universal head unfortunately (rounded). So the gun has to go in front.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Put a Dimple in the "Bucking Bar" to hold the rivet head!.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[nblight]

Not sure how much room you have but here is how i did my spars....

 

The bucking bar i did a bit different as there is plenty of access for the spar i actually used a 3 pound club hammer like this one http://shop.g-gibson.com/ekmps/shops/ggibson/images/4lb-masons-club-hammer-[3]-592-p.gif as the bucking bar setup in vice at the right height so i didn't have to hold it and could move the spar along the table to rivet it. The extra weight of the hammer worked really well i also used snap-socs which worked well when i was starting to avoid smiley faces.

 

For the number 5 rivets the rivet gun dial was set to the 4 position and the air compressor at 95 psi when being used ( i wrote it down when i found the best pressure)

 

For the number 6 rivets i increased the air pressure to about 105 psi

 

These were for number 5 and 6 rivets so the 1/8 or 4's you are doing should only take 2 short bursts with a 3x rivet gun set up properly.

 

I know i had a pic somewhere .................

 

 

[Yenn]

If you can't use a flat plate as for back rivetting, you put the bucking bar against the end of the rivet and the guns head the other end. Push the gun and work the trigger while holding pressure on the bucking bar. You need the hand pressure on the bucking bar tp position and also act against the gun. If you are getting sore shoulders I would think you are too tense. Just relax a bit. It will get better as you get more experience.

 

There is a proprietry tape for back rivetting. It is transparent in the centre so that you can see the rivet heads.

 

Have a look at SAAA and see if any of their members are anywhere near where you live. They build all sorts of aircraft, but the most common are probably hard rivetted.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Are they counter sunk flat head rivets? If they are you could back rivet them. You will need a bit of heavy steel plate or flat. Or even a bit of steel RHS or SHS. With the panels sitting flat, drop some rivets in, run a strip of tape along over the rivets to hold them in (paper type tape like masking tape). Then turn the panel over and carfully place the new rivets on top of the heavy steel plate, the plate now becomes the bucking bar on the head side and this allows you to carefully use the rivet gun to squeeze (hammer) the other sideBob

Universal head unfortunately (rounded). So the gun has to go in front.

Hi Marty, actually the gun doesn't have to go on the rivet head, even with universal head rivets.

 

I saw your plea for help previously and was going to send you my rivet tools but don't have them as small as 1/8", mine start from 5/32".

 

Anyway, see the image below - and what you need for the rounded rivet heads, if you want to hammer the stem, or press it in a shop press, is the small tool shown to the right. I'm not sure what they're called but you drill a 3/16" hole in a piece of heavy steel plate and sit the stem of the tool in the hole and the rivet head in the dimple then hammer or press the stem of the rivet.

 

 

 

[kgwilson]

The main spars on my aircraft used several hundred 5/32 solid rivets. There are plenty of clips and pictures on the web to show you the best compression & rivetting method. Basically the base should compress to about twice the original diameter on the same plane as the substrate. Any that you get on an angle or the bucking bar (dolly) slips off so the end deforms need to be removed and replaced. I ended up with a sore shoulder as well but only after I'd done more than about 100 rivets. My wife just complained about the noise of the air chisel. The secret I reckon is to have a very heavy dolly. The more mass in the dolly the more the impulses from the riveter will get absorbed. I used a piece of 50x50 solid square mild steel bar. It weighed around 2kgs I think.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

If you are getting sore shoulders I would think you are too tense.

Yes I think you're right... M61 also said I didn't have to push the dolly so hard, so I backed off a bit and it's gone a lot better.

I'm about to put up a couple of photos on my 701 build log so won't repeat them here, but have finished one side (106 rivets). One to go!

 

I saw your plea for help previously and was going to send you my rivet tools but don't have them as small as 1/8", mine start from 5/32".

Thanks HITC, I think the main problem was I didn't know the Australian suppliers. Someone put me on to Henchman and I got my tool within a few days, and it didn't break the bank. Would've been about the same cost to return post your tools back, and this way I get to keep it.

 

 

[AllanBendigo]

Marty

 

Go to EAA web site and look for home builders tips

 

There are hundreds of videos showing how to do things

 

They are a great resource

 

All Videos | EAA

 

Cheers

 

 

[Oscar]

For what it may be worth..

 

I flush-riveted my plenum chambers, many of which were in tight areas, using 1/8" . I ended up, after considerable frustration, making up the small bucking-bar tool in the piccy:

 

 

A bit of 1/2" decent steel rod ( very quickly turned down, no fancy polishing!) with a 'tit' on the end of 1/4" diameter. A small length of 4mm or so diameter pvc tube projects just enough past the end 'tit' to locate over the rivet shank, and I have a couple of bits of short steel bar with a 3/4" drill indent so I can grip the 'bar' itself and the extra weight in one hand. The pvc tube deflects enough to set the rivet very firmly and you don't have to watch out for it slipping off the rivet shank, as it (obviously) self-centres. So you can concentrate on the tool position against the head, which I found a great assistance for flush rivet work.

 

 

[Marty_d]

For what it may be worth..I flush-riveted my plenum chambers, many of which were in tight areas, using 1/8" . I ended up, after considerable frustration, making up the small bucking-bar tool in the piccy:

 

[ATTACH=full]51941[/ATTACH]

 

A bit of 1/2" decent steel rod ( very quickly turned down, no fancy polishing!) with a 'tit' on the end of 1/4" diameter. A small length of 4mm or so diameter pvc tube projects just enough past the end 'tit' to locate over the rivet shank, and I have a couple of bits of short steel bar with a 3/4" drill indent so I can grip the 'bar' itself and the extra weight in one hand. The pvc tube deflects enough to set the rivet very firmly and you don't have to watch out for it slipping off the rivet shank, as it (obviously) self-centres. So you can concentrate on the tool position against the head, which I found a great assistance for flush rivet work.

I like that idea of the PVC holding the rivet shank in place. Nice work. Unfortunately I don't have any machining capability but I might try it with a length of reo.

 

 

[coltri]

If you are putting solid rivets into a wing spar get or use a kickpress. After the initial set-up every rivet is set with one kick on the pedal. Do one rivet every 300mm to the end then come back to the start & continue. Doing the spar this way ensures a straight spar when finished.

 

 

[Marty_d]

If you are putting solid rivets into a wing spar get or use a kickpress. After the initial set-up every rivet is set with one kick on the pedal. Do one rivet every 300mm to the end then come back to the start & continue. Doing the spar this way ensures a straight spar when finished.

A few years too late for that one, but I wish I knew about the kickpress back then!

Yes I did fortunately know about the spacing it out method and they turned out straight.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I always start in the middle because it automatically halves any differences.

 

Then one near each end, then always halving making sure I split the difference of any waves, always get a great finish.

 

Thanks for the advice.

Solid advice.

 

 

[Yenn]

I bolted my RV4 spar and removed the bolts to put in the rivets. All quite tight all the time.

 

Was Marty asking about spar rivets or just general rivetting. I thought he was rivetting something near a door in the initial post.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I bolted my RV4 spar and removed the bolts to put in the rivets. All quite tight all the time.Was Marty asking about spar rivets or just general rivetting. I thought he was rivetting something near a door in the initial post.

Yep - this bit: