Gate admission to - Air Venture Australia

[jetjr]

Yes I agree re the tiff.....

Make the event bigger by;

 

Add a swap meet of aircraft parts selling sites at a reasonable price.

 

Having cheaper trade sites in lower profile positions.

 

Offering Council and other Airparks or schools free sites to promote their region.

 

Free club sites to promote to potential members.

 

Add in RAAF and commercial training and recruitment airline sites for free.

 

Free sites to all existing advertisers in Sport Pilot.

 

Free Banner Adds and links to all exhibitors on the Rec Aus site.

 

.

Swap meet is happening i think

 

All other suggestions, whilst good, involve giving things away that others have to pay for. Some seem to think admission should be free too

 

Who exactly is to pay for the insurance, fencing, cleaning, setup, etcetc?

 

My experience sees things given for free are valued similarly.

 

Bottom line is they need paid exhibitors and participants to cover overheads.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Bernie is off the track, and the information which led to that scenario is no longer on public view; it was very straightforward, was resolved, so no point in dredging it up with examples not based on the facts.

The relevance however, being until the various representative organisations can cooperate with each other, CASA can continue to kill the industry. ADSB for VFR aircraft being the next issue.

 

 

[Downunder]

I think the major issue was HOW that general sponsor came to be a MAJOR sponsor.

 

It seems the process was not a transparent as it could have/ should have been.

 

 

[storchy neil]

Driving up be there in the morning with me van Neil

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Roundsounds

 

...dumb

 

Guess you missed my point.

 

I'm simply saying "if a major sponsor" - sorry I used food restaurants as an example I should have used GMH and Ford or another example.

 

My point is; if someone is a major sponsor they are certainly going to look for exclusivity within their brand, supply or business circumscribe.

 

I'm pretty sure Citibank would not agree to have CBA or NAB auto tellers or trade sites at their event. In fact I can quote events were banking organizations have asked for auto tellers to be removed or trade sites be placed in front of them covering them.

 

I have numerous contracts on file and happy to let any volunteer event organisers view them.

 

Anyway just my thoughts as by dredging it up may prevent this happening at future events.

 

Additionally I'm very cognizant on why this happened on this occasion.

 

 

Back to my thoughts on displays etc.

 

Adding displays etc. My suggestions in adding exhibitors may not be that relevant in 2017 - but my company in the 90's ran the largest to date private event at Point Cook airbase.

 

'Wings,Wheels and Water' at its inaugural event was the largest two day event ever held with sponsors such as Shell, RAAF, State Government of Victoria, National Air and Space Museum, Dulux, Bob Jane T Marts, The Victoria Police and the Wyndham City Council.

 

The focus was on exhibitors having cheap trade sites. This was successful as exhibitors carry high costs to simply be there and displaying. The more exhibitors attracts the punter through the gate.

 

We had over 200 exhibit sites and 2300 separate exhibitors some from as far as Texas USA.

 

We raced a Mustang Shelby car against a Mustang plane down the strip. A jet racing a Lamborghini was also a highlight. Mmmm try doing that today..:cops:insurance ..

 

It was a reasonable event that insurance costs made to prohibitive to continue...

 

But 29,000 visitors through the gate proved it was a good weekend, again proving that you don't need to charge exhibitors or participants to cover costs. In fact the exhibitors and participants are the draw card.

 

Safe flying to all heading up

 

Weather looks pretty good.

 

 

[hillieg]

Hi All, I’m really only a causal observer and both me and my farther had a draw drop moment at the gate with the entry price. The three day price is very reasonable but $30 dollars in a regional area for a two hour air show does put off a lot of non aviation residents from Dubbo with their families to attend. Noticed a few cars parked out on the road watching the show for free. Wasn’t really a fan of the air show viewing area with no PA system and away from food stalls.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

In fact the exhibitors and participants are the draw card.

That's the one, I can't understand why exhibitors are charged.

 

I've done 3 major shows in the past and felt it wasn't worth it, whereas the numbers of small shows I've done were good value with just a chip in for the clean up and porta toilets.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Hi all,

 

Just a few thoughts after attending.

 

I think the variety of seminars available was excellent. Some were well attended and one or two I went to had only a few interested enthusiasts there.

 

Matt Halls presentation in the main club auditorium was attended by around 120 seated with 20 or so standing at the back. Matt kept everyone interested and fielded questions for some time after.

 

One negative was presenters in the seminar tents were competing with external speaker announcements or event commentary.

 

The Camguard presenter finished early as he was drowned out by the external speakers.

 

Not a big deal, but those presenters and some of the trade sites were also competing with external speaker locations.

 

The Airshow saw many of the trade show exhibitors bump out whilst this show was on and this was disappointing for those whom had attended seminars and then the show. It was obvious that people were heading back to the trade area to find many exhibitors had gone. Perhaps the organisers can put a time to remain set up on exhibitors.

 

I did hear numerous people enquire about gliding club displays.

 

It was also obvious Dubbo and local residents were there in force and local clubs whom did a fantastic job with food stalls etc but did miss a good opportunity to promote their own club aircraft and membership.

 

After heading up from south of Melbourne I think it was well worth the trip and the money. There is perhaps an opportunity to sell tickets to Dubbo locals prior at a cheaper price at the Narromine clubs.

 

Well done all involved.

 

 

[turboplanner]

My suggestions in adding exhibitors may not be that relevant in 2017 - but my company in the 90's ran the largest to date private event at Point Cook airbase.'Wings,Wheels and Water' at its inaugural event was the largest two day event ever held with sponsors such as Shell, RAAF, State Government of Victoria, National Air and Space Museum, Dulux, Bob Jane T Marts, The Victoria Police and the Wyndham City Council.

 

The focus was on exhibitors having cheap trade sites. This was successful as exhibitors carry high costs to simply be there and displaying. The more exhibitors attracts the punter through the gate.

 

We had over 200 exhibit sites and 2300 separate exhibitors some from as far as Texas USA.

Did your Company, once a trade site had been sold to an exhibitor, exclude all that exhibitor's competitors from buying a site?

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

No we allowed multiple trade sites in trading in similiar products but no trade site that was opposition to our major sponsors

 

Shell as a major sponsor had their own sponsored teams and this saw big race vehicle displays from Go Karts to race trucks

 

It is as not that hard to preclude direct opposition in this area . A little harder with Civa Vola Amatil whom insisted no food vendors sell Pepso or other drinks

 

Here we had a professional food vendor handle the sites and vendors.

 

 

[turboplanner]

No we allowed multiple trade sites in trading in similiar products but no trade site that was opposition to our major sponsors

Might pay you to have a careful read of the Competition and Consumer Act 2010

 

The ACCC applies fines of up to $10 million for coporations and $50,000 for individuals involved in restrictive trade practices

 

This Act supersedes the 1974 Trade Practices Act, which was in operation from 1974, and also prohibited restrictive trade.

 

 

[billwoodmason]

What I am interested in knowing is how many RAA aircraft flew in and how many RAA members attended ?.

 

My take on fly-ins for RAA pilots and members is that they just want an old fashioned get together ie no airshow, but I do understand that there has to be an attraction for the general puplic to help bankroll the whole thing.

 

This current style of program holds little or no interest to me because you can see it at all major airshows.

 

 

[turboplanner]

What I am interested in knowing is how many RAA aircraft flew in and how many RAA members attended ?.My take on fly-ins for RAA pilots and members is that they just want an old fashioned get together ie no airshow, but I do understand that there has to be an attraction for the general puplic to help bankroll the whole thing.

This current style of program holds little or no interest to me because you can see it at all major airshows.

It goes without saying that costs either have to be covered, or there is a budget for promoting the sport.

So, for your local airfield, you could advertise a BBQ, get someone to bring their gas BBQ, someone to donate the sausages, and pringt off some information leafelets; not hard to make the books balance on that.

 

The next step up is a fly in, and RAA seem to have been able to do that very successfully around the 2008-2010 period.

 

When you add an airshow the dynamics change dramatically, and you need a good promoter to raise money from major sponsors, exhibitors, and people who come through the gate.

 

At this point, before you even spend a cent, you have to ask the question, particularly after the nationally successful fly ins of the past: "what are we doing this for?", "what do we hope to achieve?", "how are we going to meet our budget?"

 

 

[rrogerramjet]

I thought it was well managed, lots of volunteers doing a great job. Couldnt do that in the city. Thanks Narromine!

 

Speaker locations definitely an issue. Nothing at the air show display standing area which was very incoveniently located. Very odd.

 

I missed the sense of any 'come n try' aviation displays or encouragement, which is what this was all about right?

 

Where were the lines of differing ULs offering cheap TIFs? Or vouchers, or representation from Cowra, Orange, Dubbo air schools? (maybe I just missed them whilst drooling over LSAs I could never afford)

 

Orange showbags a complete waste of money imho. Tho everyone went home with a SportPilot mag, maybe that was a marketing coup?

 

Ticket price definitely an issue, many, many, comments could be heard at the gate, presumably from nearby region locals. Lots of confusion about the 10/20/30 escalating each day. I stodd around the gate eating my ecxellent wood fired pizza and thats all I constantly heard.

 

I paid many 100's to fly there so 30 was loose change for me.

 

Did I get 30 value? There was very little for me to 'grab at' (wheres the hook?) other than the fact that LSA seems to be increasingly expensive carbon fibre, all glass, autopilot, BRS that is well out of reach of most, me included.

 

If I were a dreaming young pilot I would just have dad (or mum) dragging me away from those displays telling me we cant afford it.

 

I ambled around really wondering how this event added any entry paths to the flying fraternity....did I just miss it?

 

Was it 'worth' $30? Sure, cheap compared to many other events I go to....theatre, ag shows, dinner out....etc.

 

cheers

 

Ramjet

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Turboplanner

 

If you read or quote Acts of Parliment you need to have an understanding of law.

 

You are incorrect as there is absolutely no restraint of trade as these events my company ran are closed events and not retail outlets. The venue owner has the right to say who can or cannot attend

 

 

[NinjaNate]

Hi all,Just a few thoughts after attending.

 

I think the variety of seminars available was excellent. Some were well attended and one or two I went to had only a few interested enthusiasts there.

 

Matt Halls presentation in the main club auditorium was attended by around 120 seated with 20 or so standing at the back. Matt kept everyone interested and fielded questions for some time after.

 

One negative was presenters in the seminar tents were competing with external speaker announcements or event commentary.

 

The Camguard presenter finished early as he was drowned out by the external speakers.

 

Not a big deal, but those presenters and some of the trade sites were also competing with external speaker locations.

 

The Airshow saw many of the trade show exhibitors bump out whilst this show was on and this was disappointing for those whom had attended seminars and then the show. It was obvious that people were heading back to the trade area to find many exhibitors had gone. Perhaps the organisers can put a time to remain set up on exhibitors.

 

I did hear numerous people enquire about gliding club displays.

 

It was also obvious Dubbo and local residents were there in force and local clubs whom did a fantastic job with food stalls etc but did miss a good opportunity to promote their own club aircraft and membership.

 

After heading up from south of Melbourne I think it was well worth the trip and the money. There is perhaps an opportunity to sell tickets to Dubbo locals prior at a cheaper price at the Narromine clubs.

 

Well done all involved.

 

Hi all,Just a few thoughts after attending.

 

I think the variety of seminars available was excellent. Some were well attended and one or two I went to had only a few interested enthusiasts there.

 

Matt Halls presentation in the main club auditorium was attended by around 120 seated with 20 or so standing at the back. Matt kept everyone interested and fielded questions for some time after.

 

One negative was presenters in the seminar tents were competing with external speaker announcements or event commentary.

 

The Camguard presenter finished early as he was drowned out by the external speakers.

 

Not a big deal, but those presenters and some of the trade sites were also competing with external speaker locations.

 

The Airshow saw many of the trade show exhibitors bump out whilst this show was on and this was disappointing for those whom had attended seminars and then the show. It was obvious that people were heading back to the trade area to find many exhibitors had gone. Perhaps the organisers can put a time to remain set up on exhibitors.

 

I did hear numerous people enquire about gliding club displays.

 

It was also obvious Dubbo and local residents were there in force and local clubs whom did a fantastic job with food stalls etc but did miss a good opportunity to promote their own club aircraft and membership.

 

After heading up from south of Melbourne I think it was well worth the trip and the money. There is perhaps an opportunity to sell tickets to Dubbo locals prior at a cheaper price at the Narromine clubs.

 

Well done all involved.

I know the Gold Coast theme parks offer discounted tickets to local residents. They just need to produce photo ID showing their (local) address. Perhaps They could implement a similar initiative?

 

 

[turboplanner]

You are incorrect as there is absolutely no restraint of trade as these events my company ran are closed events and not retail outlets. The venue owner has the right to say who can or cannot attend

You mentioned "multiple trade sites". Whether it's a closed event, or even if you're sitting on the toilet talking on a mobile phone, if you're hindering someone's trade or commerce there is an issue.

Have a look at Section 45DB 1(A)

 

 

[red750]

By comparison, entry to the Lilydale Airshow (see separate thread) is $10 per car, motorbikes free, and $2 per head for buses. No mention of fly-in pilots. You would need to contact the flying school. Supporting Yarra Glen Men's Shed.

 

 

[storchy neil]

That bloody generation of power couldn't hear above it in 2and3 fancy that generator where it was I told by one person that they did not have power cord long enough

 

How hard was it to get two gens

 

One forum member didn't like the taste of the flies couldn't get any sauce for him to make em taste better:spot on: Neil

 

 

[Raytol]

I'm just back from having a trade site at Airventure.

 

I think that it was a good first effort for the organisation and improvements and changes will make the next one better.

 

The weather was a problem for the first two days and a lot of pilots and aircraft could not get there. Jabiru not making

 

it left a noticeable hole as I was particularly looking forward to seeing the new Gen 4 engines. The trade sites being

 

relatively expensive did lead to a predominance of sites aimed at the "upper end of the market".

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'm just back from having a trade site at Airventure.I think that it was a good first effort for the organisation and improvements and changes will make the next one better.

The weather was a problem for the first two days and a lot of pilots and aircraft could not get there. Jabiru not making

 

it left a noticeable hole as I was particularly looking forward to seeing the new Gen 4 engines. The trade sites being

 

relatively expensive did lead to a predominance of sites aimed at the "upper end of the market".

That's an opportunity to get the message across for some communication with supplers to get a critical mass balance on price where big numbers of traders will come in

It's a common conundrum for promoters of trade shows, but simply if hafl the price will guarantee twice the suppliers, the promoter has his base cost covered, plus he gets additional revenue from more people through the gates, plus those extra trade sites will pull more visitors, particularly after the first year after word gets around. It would be very interesting to compare the number of trade site from 2008/10 to this year, and then do some work on what might attract more traders.

 

 

[Raytol]

Yes Turbo. As one of the original 44 founders of the AUF it is certainly a different world now!

 

Gone are the days of the dawn buzzing of two-strokes over the camp site and the disappearance

 

of the "characters" that came along with it. Now it is more "corporate", safe, responsible, insurance

 

and lawyer driven and becoming "owned" by the people that could easily afford to fly GA but use our

 

hard gotten system for their own ends.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Turboplanner

 

I'm not going to get into an argument on a point of law and an Act of Parliment that you are quoting other than to state that you are incorrect and misinterpreting the section.

 

There is considerable Case Law to support my companies stand - no different to Bernie Eccleston stating what teams can run at the F1 Grand Prix and the MCG Grand Final being telecast by one network exclusively.

 

I know this Thread has got somewhat off track Turboplanner and will leave it at that

 

If you feel we have done the wrong thing by offering exclusivity at our events and suggesting Air Adventure could do the same then I'm sorry you think that.

 

However, with over 20 years in the food business that insisted on sponsorship exclusivity, along with my car, home and airshow (previous ventures that gave exclusitivity) I think we were within our rights and the law.

 

I backed these decisions up with the knowledge I gained in my first full time job as a Court Prosecutor. I'm sure many of the lawyers and barristers whom are friends at the time would have challenged us if we were going something wrong.

 

Again put simply your wrong in your interpretation.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Luckily I wasn't doing it.

 

 

[Yenn]

I drove down from Qld, weather was too poor to fly.

 

Weather was. A downer on Saturday. The seminars were all good, but I didn't,t attend Matt Halls.

 

What really. Pissed me off was the terrific noise from the generator within 2 m of the seminar tents. I could not hear in the centre tent. The organisers did lookinto it, but I think it was too hard for them.

 

As far as costs go, the Old Station has run plenty of air shows over 25 years and made enough money to donate half a million dollars to the rescue helicopter, without charging fly in pilots a fee.

 

If you want an air show, the best way is to get the warbirds or an exhibitor like Paul Bennet to organise it with CASA.

 

The big let down is the fact that at Narromine, the public could not get near any aircraft, except those on display and the air show was too far away. The Interstate Airshow I called it.