How many times do you check the ASI in the circuit and specifically on finals

[SSCBD]

Had a fly with a RAA pilot doing a couple of touch and goes, and was kinda shocked at the way the airspeed was not maintained on base and finals. Got pretty slow.

 

Yes it was gusty but not that bad.

 

Just interested if others have set of times you look at ASI.

 

 

[derekliston]

Had a fly with a RAA pilot doing a couple of touch and goes, and was kinda shocked at the way the airspeed was not maintained on base and finals. Got pretty slow.Yes it was gusty but not that bad.

Just interested if others have set of times you look at ASI.

Answer to that is 'constantly' hard to put a time period on it but constantly is accurate!

 

 

[HonkyNerdPilot]

Remember your work cycle on finals? Aimpoint, aspect, airspeed. Keep doing that, when it's gusty especially focus on holding that attitude so your airspeed doesn't dart around too much. Use small power adjustments to control glidepath while holding/fine tuning the attitude to get the right airspeed. When you get enough experience you will realise that you really don't look at airspeed much flying on finals.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

CONSTANTLY particularly on turns. My final moments before touch down are head up but I like to see my targets speeds over the fence.

 

 

[Nightmare]

Yep, I'd like to think I'm constantly looking at the ASI, making small adjustments to stay at the approach speed through base and final, up to the runway threshold. If it's all over the place, I seriously consider going around. Thinking about it, the ASI is really the only instrument I'm watching regularly throughout the approach.

 

All my good landings are always preceded by a stabilized approach. And stabilized means the ASI showing the right speed.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The slip ball deserves as much attention as the ASI-especially on the slow, deadly turn into final.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Yes, ASI and the little black ball in the turns.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[SDQDI]

I don't spend a long time looking at the ASI but I certainly look at it fairly often, it only takes a glance to know where it is at.

 

On smooth days it doesn't get as much attention from me as you can maintain your attitude and it won't change a great deal, however I find on gusty thermally afternoons I find myself doing the quick glance every few seconds when on approach. I find if I try to hold the same attitude (in regards to the horizon!) on those thermally days my airspeed can bounce from too close to the stall to over flap extension speed pretty quickly what I do find though is refraining from excessive elevator movements keeps the airspeed a lot steadier even though the nose goes up and down a bit more.

 

It's not a bad habit to have a squiz at the skidball every third or fourth glance too, it can be surprising how much we have our rudder inputs out a tad or a big tad!

 

 

[Mick]

Unless it's gusty the speed will pretty much look after itself if you have the aircraft trimmed properly. The ASI is still part of my scan through base & finals.

 

 

[Garfly]

Or ... as Alpha Systems would have us believe:

 

 

 

[derekliston]

Or ... as Alpha Systems would have us believe:

 

[ATTACH=full]52217[/ATTACH]

Pity I didn't know you were nearby. I've been at Chain Valley Bay for a week but going home early tomorrow. Where do you fly,Warnervale Belmont or somewhere else?

 

 

[Garfly]

Hi Derek, I've been flying out of Cessnock - and, more recently Taree - though I've been away overseas most of this year.

 

As it happens, though, I'm up in FNQ right now, on a job. I did fly to Warwick once - a year or two back - when I was doing some re-training with Mahl Oakes in his Tecnam out of Redcliffe. Lovely flying country!

 

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Recall that for any given power and attitude combination you'll have a resultant performance, of which IAS will be one. The total reliance on IAS is dangerous. What would you do should the ASI fail or over read? I have students fly circuits with the ASI and ALT covered before I'll and them solo.

 

 

[kaz3g]

I have to slow down to under 56 knots before getting any flap out and I do this on short downwind. Bearing in mind that the flap hinges are just screwed into 73 year old pieces of wood, I trim against the ASI for about 50 knots and open one stage before turning base.

 

Second stage if not gusty (or even leave just 1st stage set if really bad) and then 3rd stage (barn doors) if all good because it brings the stall down to 26 knots. I might glance at the ASI a couple of times on final but I'm much more focussed on my attitude, the little black ball and what's in front of me.

 

Kaz

 

 

[turboplanner]

I have to slow down to under 56 knots before getting any flap out and I do this on short downwind. Bearing in mind that the flap hinges are just screwed into 73 year old pieces of wood, I trim against the ASI for about 50 knots and open one stage before turning base.Second stage if not gusty (or even leave just 1st stage set if really bad) and then 3rd stage (barn doors) if all good because it brings the stall down to 26 knots. I might glance at the ASI a couple of times on final but I'm much more focussed on my attitude, the little black ball and what's in front of me.

 

Kaz

If you are landing an Auster without bouncing it, (and I'm sure you are), that sounds the perfect procedure to me.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

The late Maurie Bradney of Waikerie gliding fame used to reckon every 3 seconds to look at the ASI in circuit. Seems about right.

 

There is interest in the USA in flying the 180 degree circuit from downwind to final. A FAA/University of North Dakota project and the latest EAA Sport Aviation has an interesting article about actual measurements of bank angle G load airspeed during the square circuit and the 180 degree circuit. I've been trying the 180 degree circuit and it seems much easier. No large bank angles, seems very sedate. Aim is to prevent the turning base/final stall spins.Military uses it.

 

 

[Friarpuk]

Hi I've never heard of the 180 degree circuit. Pardon my ignorance, what is it?

 

When learnng to fly or in an unfamiliar type, glancing at the ASI without becoming fixated on it is healthy. But when you know your plane glancing and feeling go hand in hand.

 

When I learnt to fly and still do on gusty days, is to come over the fence much faster than on calm sedate days. When it's really rough even foregoing the final stage (full) flap.

 

That's what I was taught and seems to work best for me.

 

 

[Garfly]

Hi Heath,

 

I think it refers to what's otherwise called the Circular Approach - also the "navy approach", apparently, in the US.

 

 

It's pros and cons for everyday GA flying are discussed near the beginning of this article:

 

Searching for a miracle cure to loss of control accidents | Air Facts Journal

 

And also near the end of this one:

 

Arriving at the VFR sweet spot - without colliding or spinning in | Air Facts Journal

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Yes, ASI and the little black ball in the turns.rgmwa

An old flying instructor at Bewick Vic, ( Thank you David Squirrell ) once told me that,. . .'After a while,. . you will KNOW that the aircraft is in balance in a turn because you will feel it in your pants. . . .he was EXTREMELY serious about the 'Final Turn' situation too ! He was the bloke who told me first in Australia ( I had been told this a number of times in the UK whilst flying DH82A before I came to OZ ) that 'If you are going to die in a blazing wrecked aeroplane, then this will almost certainly be the thing that causes it if you don't bloody watch out'

 

He taught me to fly the whole circuit with a sticker over the ASI and fly by 'Attitude'. Later on, he taught me to fly the circuit with both the ASI AND the Altimeter covered. . .. Useful practice he said. .

 

I dunno whether 'Radical' instructors do that nowadays. . .in this sanitised world. . .

 

 

[derekliston]

I've always had a preference for the 'circular approach' what I've always thought of as a 'fighter approach' because if you watch the old spitfires and hurricanes, that is pretty much what they do and I think a lot of Pitts biplanes and similar seem to do the same, but I have upset a few (more than a few!) instructors during check rides and biennials because of that.

 

 

[kasper]

I've always had a preference for the 'circular approach' what I've always thought of as a 'fighter approach' because if you watch the old spitfires and hurricanes, that is pretty much what they do and I think a lot of Pitts biplanes and similar seem to do the same, but I have upset a few (more than a few!) instructors during check rides and biennials because of that.

And if your engine and nose obscure entirely the forward view out the aircraft when the speed is reduced to circuit speed then I would agree that the circular turning approach is appropriate. However if you can see over the nose the separate square turns of base and final accomodate crosswinds and landing at different/unfamiliar airfields a bit more easily in my experience especially as a weekend flyer where my practice of flying skills is not daily.

 

 

[Keenaviator]

Something I really like about my Jab is that when turning base, carb heat on, power back to 1700, trim all the way back it settles to 60 knots then as you apply flaps it settles to a nice steady approach speed of 50 - every time.

 

 

[Hargraves]

In the latter stages of my certificate training the cfi demonstrated flying your glide approach buy judgment only via covering the asi which was good learning practice but only to demonstrate its possible to do so, otherwise

 

scan and monitor asi, rate of decent and the ball

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

In my early solo days, I was on late final coming into 17L at YMMB on a calm sunny day. Over Kingston reserve (I think it is still Kingston reserve), I was admiring the view and then it occurred to me that I seemed to have a long time to admire it. Glanced down at the ASI and it was nudging south of 40kts (in either a C150 or 152 - can't recall). That was a ILAFFT (I learned about flying from that) moment... Still have to look outside when I am landing, but my internal scan all perked up from that moment.

 

 

[phonetic]

attitude + power = performance I was taught for every RPM & pitch attitude there was performance of climb or decent for given ASI