How many times do you check the ASI in the circuit and specifically on finals

[rgmwa]

.'After a while,. . you will KNOW that the aircraft is in balance in a turn because you will feel it in your pants. . . .

Maybe others can do that reliably, but I need to glance at the ball to make sure my pants are reacting properly.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Maybe others can do that reliably, but I need to glance at the ball to make sure my pants are reacting properly.

Quite true Rgm. . . the clocks and dials are put there for a very good reason ! . . . Additional 'Physical' clues are also useful of course. . . ( Unless you're flying in IMC ! )

 

 

[Yenn]

I look before I drop the flaps and probably just as I start the turn to final. One plane I fly has no trim, but I can still fly by attitude with no great reliance on the ASI.

 

No real problems with not using it at all.

 

 

[rrogerramjet]

I look before 1stage flaps (obviously), after base turn, 2nd stage flaps, after final turn and again just over the fence. But I try to stay more focused on the ball (the killer item) and the attitude. I check Alt at the same times, just to know I'm dialled in on the 'precribed circuit height'.

 

Having read and learned about wing loadings I'd rather be watching the ball if I know that X manifold pressure/RPM is set and good (and 7 seconds ago my airspeed was good).

 

To that end it intuitively came about during my solo flying (without some CFI telling you youre doing it wrong) that a 180degree approach seemed more logical and comfortable, and I have impressed more than one instructor with my engine out glide in practice from downwind. I nearly always pull off a better landing with a long circular approach than with the formal square circuit. Same for a straight in, just feel the glide...you soon know if you're going to make it over the fence.

 

What I have deducted from my experience is that a square circuit sets some formalities that you should be w power, x ft, y height and z flaps at certain points in the circuit but having to haul it in on feel alone let's you just 'fly the plane' as a pilot is supposed to do. Not follow the circuit guidelines to the letter. I quite enjoy my engine failure in circuit practice for this very reason. Not EFATO mind you :)

 

I will ask my CFI to cover up the ASI and Alt in my next session. Thanks for the idea.

 

Fly safe

 

Ramjet

 

 

[Phil Perry]

"I will ask my CFI to cover up the ASI and Alt in my next session. Thanks for the idea".

 

You may well find that your CFI might not respond well to that idea Rog. . . covering those instruments will mean that HE / She can't see them either, this means that He ' She is then responsible if something goes badly wrong. I have had this rejection as a 'Bloody stupid idea' from Two instructors in the UK during revals. Mind you,. . they WERE expecting perfectly rectangular circuits. . .

 

Personally, I prefer the semicircular approach,, but it just isn't possible, nor acceptable; at most provincial airfields here. . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I look before I drop the flaps and probably just as I start the turn to final. One plane I fly has no trim, but I can still fly by attitude with no great reliance on the ASI.

No real problems with not using it at all.

I was well taught, . . .by an Ex-RAF Hurricane pilot, and later, in Australia, by the Wonderful Alan Basket. at Berwick in a C-150. On Base leg, 1500 RPM and 'Half land - Half Sky' in the window lad . .. he said. . ."AND WATCH YOUR BALANCE AND DAMN AIRSPEED LIKE A HAWK ON THAT FINAL TURN !"

 

Oddly Enough, my Hurricane instructor in the Tigger in England said something very similar many years earlier. . . .

 

David Squirrell. . .a lovely instructor I met following basic training with Alan B, and my reintroduction to Tigger flying in VH-TIG ( DH82A ) had a little poetic ditty which went like,. . .

 

'I saw 'Im Spin. . .I saw 'Im Burn. . he Held off Bank. . on 'is Final Turn. . .'

 

 

( He got TOO SLOW as well really,. . .but that doesn't rhyme. . . ! )

 

Odd how you tend to remember little things like that. . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

And if your engine and nose obscure entirely the forward view out the aircraft when the speed is reduced to circuit speed then I would agree that the circular turning approach is appropriate. However if you can see over the nose the separate square turns of base and final accomodate crosswinds and landing at different/unfamiliar airfields a bit more easily in my experience especially as a weekend flyer where my practice of flying skills is not daily.

I was taught to land like that by my Ex-Hurricane pilot 'Uncle George' in a DH82A in the very early 1960s. . He said that's the way we did it in the RAF so It's good enough for you. It certainly works for many types of taildragger anyway. I can only assume he was referring loosely to the RAF 'Run - in - and - break' method of down wind to final in a 180 deg curved approach. . .Our Flexwing Instructor at Otherton, Mike Bailey, prefers this 'DownBaseFinal 'Curve' approach for basic students,. . .then later, he teaches them to fly oblongs, so that places like Shobdon, Fivepee Green etc, don't get on their case post landing, for sloppy flying ! They like 'Square' circuits at most GA fields nowadays anyhow. It's nice to be adaptable though isn't it ?. . I always fly the curve in my Gemini Flash 2, or indeed ANY weightshift, where it is possible, without upsetting the 'Squareheads' . . . ( Gordon Faulkner,. .Of whom I assume you have heard . . . used to do the same with ab initio students. . )

 

Phil.

 

 

[facthunter]

If you are CHANGING things, Like adding flap, turning, reducing power, changing pitch you need to watch the effect on the airspeed and assure yourself you have the speed you want. When you are STABILISED the speed won't change unless you change something to cause it to vary or you get a gust. The plane will carry on doing pretty much what it was doing. That's the broad meaning of being stabilised. You also learn to add power or lower the nose as you turn or add flap, to compensate automatically. This sort of thing comes with experience. Chasing airspeed is a bad technique. Your primary reference is aircraft attitude whether on instruments or visual. Powered or gliding. Nev

 

 

[kasper]

I was taught to land like that by my Ex-Hurricane pilot 'Uncle George' in a DH82A in the very early 1960s. . He said that's the way we did it in the RAF so It's good enough for you. It certainly works for many types of taildragger anyway. I can only assume he was referring loosely to the RAF 'Run - in - and - break' method of down wind to final in a 180 deg curved approach. . .Our Flexwing Instructor at Otherton, Mike Bailey, prefers this 'DownBaseFinal 'Curve' approach for basic students,. . .then later, he teaches them to fly oblongs, so that places like Shobdon, Fivepee Green etc, don't get on their case post landing, for sloppy flying ! They like 'Square' circuits at most GA fields nowadays anyhow. It's nice to be adaptable though isn't it ?. . I always fly the curve in my Gemini Flash 2, or indeed ANY weightshift, where it is possible, without upsetting the 'Squareheads' . . . ( Gordon Faulkner,. .Of whom I assume you have heard . . . used to do the same with ab initio students. . )Phil.

Indeed I’ve heard of Gordon- and I had to get use to flexwing review flights in the uk where it was required to plan a 180 curves approach to the engine failure outlanding and vary as required.

Odd to be taught one thing for Std practice and an entirely seperate one for the emergency - never really agreed with that as stress in emergency tends to return to learned pattern so I always like to do a single method as the core to all so where the fan stops Cooling you the heat of the situation is minimised by trying to move from patten learning.

 

But each their own - I can do either and have a preference for 1 as it fits more situations where I mix with GA

 

 

[facthunter]

In an emergency your mind shouldn't be shackled with "which technique am I using? What if your chosen (only)field has a line of trees along the boundary interfering with your "normal" final you MUST adjust THAT circuit or the field is no use to you .

 

Also with the crab or sideslip question. Do what is suited or a combination of both dependent on the situation you are in.

 

Or the glide V/s power situation. Circumstances alter techniques required. IF you are inflexible you might get it wrong but confusion is not what we are talking about here. If you get confused easily stick to what works for you, but constant and accurate assessment of your circumstances is part of flying a plane properly . (situational awareness). Nev.