Thinking of buying this aircraft

[farri]

M61A1, Do you have spats, if so, do they fit ok? ...I`m interested you say you`re taking off and landing 10 kts slower than before, what do you think is the reason for that?

 

Frank.

 

 

[boleropilot]

hey Gregory, forgot to mention these seatbelts - I got one for 0455 to check it out and will buy another for the back seat

 

4 Point Bolt-On CAMLOCK Racing Bucket Seat Belt Safety Harness (Single) Red | eBay

 

btw, the seller says "this is not a genuine Sparco item - the Sparco label is just for cosmetic purposes" = wtf ???

 

anyway the belt is beautifully made and the rotating buckle works spot on - much safer than the standard press button type

 

cheers

 

 

[onetrack]

Boleropilot, you might want to think twice about using those dodgy Chinese sub-standard seatbelts, if you place any value on your life.

 

Besides, even just owning a fake product with a fake label, will render you liable to prosecution - as numerous fake Gucci and Rolex owners have found to their dismay.

 

Authorities are becoming increasingly intent on hunting down and penalising (and jailing) both producers and end-users of counterfeit products, for the huge dangers they pose to society at large.

 

We in the Western world have standards, regulations, testing procedures, and verifiable quality controls for good reasons.

 

However, there are always those manufacturers and sellers, in Asian regions in particular, who have no interest in any of that, just quick and huge profits.

 

Fake FIA Harnesses - Australian Auto-Sport Alliance

 

https://www.iwu.edu/economics/PPE17/lewis.pdf

 

 

[boleropilot]

hmm - good points onetrack, thanks for your input - anybody else reading this, listen to onetrack, not me

 

regards

 

BP

 

 

[farri]

How do you know the fake product when so many well-known, reputable brand name items carry the label of the country they are manufactured in and those countries also manufacture the fake products

 

My wife has a very well known reputable brand of a household Mixmaster for mixing cake mixes, it still goes well but she`s had it for many years, it`s quite old so a few months ago I decided to buy her a newer version of the same brand name, checked the internet, thought I`d found a good one so I bought it, cost, $240! it turned up, the first time my wife switched it on it was making a grating noise, it lasted roughly 3 minutes and started smoking, that was the end of it.

 

Two weeks ago we were in a very reputable department store in Cairns, there was a much fancier looking Mixmaster of the same well-known brand name so I bought it! The first time she switched it on to mix, it went for roughly 3 minutes and failed! She`d had enough, went back to the store and asked for a refund, which they didn`t hesitate to give here.

 

Frank,

 

Ps, I kid you not about how long both went! The problem now is knowing which brand to buy next! The old one just keeps working away.

 

 

[onetrack]

Farri, that is a good point. However, purchasing household products is not in the same league as purchasing safety and aviation-related products that normally have to meet stringent QC, standards, and tests.

 

A new Mixmaster burning up 3 mins after you turn it on, is not really a major health and safety issue - unless you happen to be electrocuted, or burnt by it - which is reasonably rare.

 

However, buy a counterfeit, sub-standard safety or aviation-related item, that has not met any stringent QC, testing, or standards, could definitely cost you your life.

 

Buying from reputable dealers or retailers and checking for all the relevant QC, standards, and test markings, is the best way of ensuring you're getting the genuine product.

 

Unfortunately, there are many genuine aftermarket parts, component and accessory suppliers, who provide good quality products, and these must not be confused with counterfeit products.

 

However, the good quality aftermarket manufacturers will put their own (generally, well-known) name to their products - unlike the counterfeiters, who will normally aim for "high-end" brand names, on their shoddy products.

 

 

[M61A1]

M61A1, Do you have spats, if so, do they fit ok? ...I`m interested you say you`re taking off and landing 10 kts slower than before, what do you think is the reason for that?Frank.

No spats Farri. The reason is a massive change in the AoA as it sits on the ground. Previously it sat almost flat so there was insufficient AoA to get flying under 55kts, same when landing...if you arrive at an angle where you can fly at 45 kts, (and will easily fly at that speed) the tail wheel will be running down the runway and the mains still well in the air.

Makes little or no difference once I'm airbourne, just enables me to get it off and on at a lower speed at a higher AoA.

 

 

[farri]

A new Mixmaster burning up 3 mins after you turn it on, is not really a major health and safety issue - unless you happen to be electrocuted, or burnt by it - which is reasonably rare.However, buy a counterfeit, sub-standard safety or aviation-related item, that has not met any stringent QC, testing, or standards, could definitely cost you your life.

You`re absolutely correct! I thought that was obvious without me pointing it out! Probably shouldn`t have posted about a mixmaster.

 

 

[farri]

The reason is a massive change in the AoA as it sits on the ground. Previously it sat almost flat so there was insufficient AoA to get flying under 55kts, same when landing.

I have the 6.00x6 mains and the 200 pneumatic tail wheel. If I don`t hold the Drifter on the ground I`m off the ground just above the stall speed.

 

If you`re Drifter has an MTOW of 400kg, the Take Off Safety Speed (TOSS) is 50kts, with a Stall Speed (Vs) of 36kts at MTOW, therefore, at 55kts the AC would have been well above flying speed. Flying speed and distance before getting airborne are two completely different things, the AC can be held on the ground well above flying speed.

 

Frank.

 

 

[M61A1]

Mine has 450kg MTOW. I've been looking at your pictures trying to see if there's any difference in rigging. It's hard to tell, but your wing looks as though it might have a slightly higher incidence, but the fuselage sits fairly flat like mine did.

 

Using some fairly dodgy measurements of your pics, it looks like the vertical tube at the aft spar on mine may be longer than yours.

 

 

[farri]

Mine has 450kg MTOW.

Thanks for that, I knew about the increase to 450 kg MTOW but never knew why they did it and didn`t ever bother to find out! I remember wondering at the time if they`d only increased the MTOW figure to allow for a larger nose pod, the 582 engine and underbelly fuel tank or if they`d actually strengthened the airframe.

So what is the Stall Speed and the Take Off Safety Speed, please? The figures may be different but the principle remains the same!

 

 

[M61A1]

Stall speed at MTOW is about 38kts indicated, pretty close to the POH for the strut braced version. I can find no mention of a Take Off Safety Speed, but I generally stay in ground effect until around 55kts.

 

Yes the A582 airframe has a few structural reinforcements, in the landing gear. the horizontal stabs and the spars as far as I know.

 

 

[JG3]

No spats Farri. The reason is a massive change in the AoA as it sits on the ground. Previously it sat almost flat so there was insufficient AoA to get flying under 55kts, same when landing...if you arrive at an angle where you can fly at 45 kts, (and will easily fly at that speed) the tail wheel will be running down the runway and the mains still well in the air.Makes little or no difference once I'm airbourne, just enables me to get it off and on at a lower speed at a higher AoA.

I've built a 95.10 that I call my High Clearance Trail Bike.

 

 

The wing is Drifter skins on my strut braced frame, so essentially the same as a Drifter wing.

 

Bottom surface 12.5 degrees in three point attitude.

 

Weight is 184kg so it's heavier than a pre-cert.

 

When holding the tail wheel on the ground, it leaps off at 33kts indicated, landing pretty much the same. Flies just fine at that speed, and of course hold down in ground effect and the speed quickly builds up to 50 for a good safe climb. Sure is great for STOL ops off rough ground.....

 

A lot of Drifters sitting at that flat stance on the gear give up a whole lot of STOL capability....

 

I'd like to see a Drifter with motorbike wheels on the mains to increase the three point attitude. Probably small trail bike wheels would be tall enough to give the right attitude. Sure would look cool.... Would have to machine hubs or adapters to mount on the stub axle, but not a big problem. Might even be able to use motorbike caliper brakes....

 

 

[farri]

I've built a 95.10 that I call my High Clearance Trail Bike.[ATTACH=full]53879[/ATTACH]..

Goodonya! I`d prefer the engine behind me and nothing in front to obstruct visibility, though.

 

Way back when! I came up with the idea of attaching a suitable trail bike to the airframe, underneath the wing. The AC would be powered by a pusher engine and could be flown conventionally from the sitting position on the bike. At the destination, the bike could be detached and provide transport. It would be classed, Experimental. With the right design, I reckon it would fly, what do you reckon?

 

Frank.

 

 

[onetrack]

Gee, Frank! A West Aussie bloke beat you to the idea of combining a motorbike and aircraft, 20 years ago! (Lindsay Mannix).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GulHMmrt-o

 

And the Americans are still toying with roadable aircraft/motorbike combinations!

 

Motorcycle with wings: Kit makes aircraft street legal

 

 

[farri]

Gee, Frank! A West Aussie bloke beat you to the idea

Well, I`ll be! As a bike rider, I had my idea about 40 years ago, forgot all about it till I read the post from jg3...Thanks!

 

Frank.

 

 

[JG3]

Well, I`ll be! As a bike rider, I had my idea about 40 years ago, forgot all about it till I read the post from jg3...Thanks!Frank.

I'm sure many have thought of the concept, but then realized the problems with practicalities.... Where is that WA trike now, and how much has it flown??? Patent applied but we haven't seen any production....

 

 

[onetrack]

Where is that WA trike now, and how much has it flown??? Patent applied but we haven't seen any production....

Yeah, I'd be pretty confidant in stating it was a one-off - and despite his patent, it was never going to be a roaring best-seller.

[rankamateur]

Drifter listed in local newspaper supplement.

 

DRIFTER ULTRALIGHT

 

A503 Reg 25-315 380Hrs

 

Dual Control, Wire Braced

 

$6000 Coonabarabran

 

02 6842 1033

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Gee, Frank! A West Aussie bloke beat you to the idea of combining a motorbike and aircraft, 20 years ago! (Lindsay Mannix).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GulHMmrt-o

Not sure why he's wasting the use of the rear wheel to aid in acceleration, braking and suspension.

 

 

[boleropilot]

hey Kiwi - with 404 so good at STOL, and with your incredible piloting skills, you could be The First One to take off and land at Woolooman International Airport...

 

let me know when you'd like to Drop In, I'll chase all the cattle off the 'strip (and run the rack over to chop up the you know what)

 

cheers!

 

CD

 

 

[Kiwi]

Hi Dave.

 

You may recall that I underwent a ball reduction operation a few years ago, now I am only allowed to take them out of my wife's handbag if I promise only to take off from areas that I might survive a engine failure.... so it looks like your place is off limits.

 

Kiwi