Narromine debarkle,,,,6ft fence !!!!!!!

[bexrbetter]

For sure the fences may be overkill and they certainly aren't at every event but I suspect it had more to do with money than safety

They weren't there 2 years ago, it was great wondering around on the tarmac up close and personal.

 

Not sure what you mean about the "money"?

 

 

[coljones]

It is not the nanny state but the insurers imposing all sorts of strange conditions so that their exposure to injury claims can be minimised. I was a Marshall at a bike ride last week and was forced to wear enclosed shoes. I can't recall anyone having had a toe injury before and it really is shit giving. I suppose it is different in the states because the greatest threat, guns, cannot be excluded from public liability insurance so everything else is OK. Maybe we should legalise the open carry of loaded firearms to really give the insurance companies something to think about.

 

 

[M61A1]

It is not the nanny state but the insurers imposing all sorts of strange conditions so that their exposure to injury claims can be minimised. I was a Marshall at a bike ride last week and was forced to wear enclosed shoes. I can't recall anyone having had a toe injury before and it really is **** giving. I suppose it is different in the states because the greatest threat, guns, cannot be excluded from public liability insurance so everything else is OK. Maybe we should legalise the open carry of loaded firearms to really give the insurance companies something to think about.

You just described the "nanny state".

 

 

[coljones]

You just described the "nanny state".

Nope! I just described the nanny private enterprise. Under the state sponsored laizez faire economy in NSW we will continue to have compulsory insurance with no obligation on the insurance companies to pay out and no recourse to the courts. It is not a nanny state but state sponsored FU.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Be interesting to hear whose idea it really was and "why" as opposed to just guessing why.

 

No such thing at an open day at local RAAF base this year, plenty of aircraft up close etc - seems to suggest it was "someone's" idea as opposed to a requirement?

 

 

[turboplanner]

So when will we all stand up and say "enough is enough" and demand that Australia follows New Zealand's lead and separate ourselves from the USA's model of litigation for anything and everything?

My wife tripped on some overhanging concrete on a step, and broke her knee, incurring about $5000 in medical bills and increased air transport cost - we go nothing, so I'm not a fan of the NZ system.

We don't follow the US model of litigation; ours is quite different, which is why some of the FARS which posters tout from time to time, could not be made legal here.

 

If we kept in mind that one party or another will see the value if enough people lobby. Perhaps we'd just need a Change.org or SumOfUs.org campaign to get things rolling?

I'm not sure what you could campaign about that would get traction. Australia uses the Scottish legal precedent from 1932.

 

The only thing I can find which has changed since then, is the South Australian kindergarten fatalities in the 1980's.

 

From that time states and territories and the Federal government took action to protect themselves, organisations followed, and this may have sparked an awareness from the general public that at sporting events you were not carrying out your duty of care just by saying, for example, "fly safely"

 

Imagine - we could have local speedway events again and get the loonatics off the roads, local fun car rallys, amateur boat...

In response to someone else quoting the demise of speedway a few weeks ago, I checked on the status of the Victorian Speedway Council which administers racing at small country tracks in Victoria. It had 26 clubs in the early 1970s, and today it has 31 clubs, with the majority managing their own speedway tracks and running family events. And they still have a volunteer Stewards panel which trains volunteer stewards for those tracks. Historic machinery field days are also thriving, and they also have to meet safety requirements. It's just a matter of how simple or how complicated you want to make it.

 

... all the things we used to have before the threat of litigation for a cut finger made the event insurance too expensive and they all closed down because of that.

Warren Buffet loves insurance because you get your money in first and can invest it before you have to pay out, and you lay off the odds just like a bookie.

One cut finger is an insurance claim, but ten cut fingers at every event for a small organisation may cause the insurers to walk away. Oddly enough, water slides were one of the first activities the insurance industry walked away from in the 1980s. but it made sense when you looked at the statistics - primarily the number of serious back injuries, paraplegics etc from collisions. Waterslides are back, with fairly simple controls which virtually eradicated the back injuries.

 

 

[M61A1]

My wife tripped on some overhanging concrete on a step, and broke her knee, incurring about $5000 in medical bills and increased air transport cost - we go nothing, so I'm not a fan of the NZ system.

Why is this a problem? Sounds perfectly reasonable. Sounds more like we have a problem with how we do business.

 

In response to someone else quoting the demise of speedway a few weeks ago, I checked on the status of the Victorian Speedway Council which administers racing at small country tracks in Victoria. It had 26 clubs in the early 1970s, and today it has 31 clubs, with the majority managing their own speedway tracks and running family events. And they still have a volunteer Stewards panel which trains volunteer stewards for those tracks. Historic machinery field days are also thriving, and they also have to meet safety requirements. It's just a matter of how simple or how complicated you want to make it.

Speedway as we knew it is dead, it's only inhabited by a few diehards with more money than sense. The general consensus is that over regulation made it not worth having a go.

The way RA is going that will happen to it too if we're not careful.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

My wife tripped on some overhanging concrete on a step, and broke her knee, incurring about $5000 in medical bills and increased air transport cost - we go nothing, so I'm not a fan of the NZ system.

I'm really sorry to hear of your wife's injury, but with respect, that has nothing to do with it.

 

There would have been several options available to you to avoid being out of pocket after the event, without having to sue anyone.

 

For a start, if you paid for your travel with a credit card you would have been covered for any medical expenses and increased travel costs and/or accommodation costs due to the injury, from travel and medical insurance provided free by most reputable credit card providers, provided that the cost of the travel exceeded $500 in total.

 

Or - you could have taken out travel insurance which would cover it, frankly I'd not travel abroad without health/injury cover at the least because medical costs for non-nationals are exorbitant in most countries.

 

Seriously though - had this happened in Australia would you have sued the owner of the concrete step?

 

 

[red750]

Speedway as we knew it is dead, it's only inhabited by a few diehards with more money than sense.

Careful there, M61. Many people already say that about RA pilots.

 

 

[Akromaster]

‘Mountain out of a molehill’ comes to mind about this thread. Like most things, you can’t please everybody, but my pet peave is how easy it is to complain as compared to offering ideas. ‘Glass half full’ anyone?

 

Having said that, there are probably three discussions going on here so other than the original thread, I do agree on the other off topic points such as over regulation and insurance.

 

Ak

 

 

[M61A1]

The fencing will be directly related to over regulation and insurance, and in the long term the demise of RAA as we know it. Many suggestions have been offered, but as has been pointed out, our legal system is the problem and is a similar effect to thermal runaway, where it generates it's own issues and won't quit until we have some massive event that brings us back to sensibility.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Speedway as we knew it is dead, it's only inhabited by a few diehards with more money than sense. The general consensus is that over regulation made it not worth having a go. The way RA is going that will happen to it too if we're not careful.

Where do you get this poison; who makes up this "general consensus"?

 

Speedway in Australia and the US is alive, well and in steady growth.

 

In Victoria the Victorian Speedway Council had 26 clubs; today it has 31, with most of them owning their own tracks.

 

They still have the voluntary Stewards Panel, which trains all the voluntary Stewards, which makes it possible.

 

This Council covers the grass roots racing, in small country towns and rural districts, which has never been forgotten.

 

In addition, there are about a dozen other speedways, including Avalon and Warrnambool which run the World Series Sprintcars every year.

 

http://vsc.org.au/

 

World Series Sprintcar tour of Australia is on again this season:

 

2017/18 DRIVERS

 

Speedway Sedans are still going strong:

 

Speedway Sedans Australia Inc.

 

Nascar is still going strong:

 

nascar - Google Search

 

World of Outlaws has just finished another spectacular season:

 

World of Outlaws Craftsman Sprint Car Series - 2017 Schedule

 

The Knoxville Nationals will be on again next August with plenty of Australians on the crews and in the spectator areas

 

58th Annual 5-hour ENERGY Knoxville Nationals presented by Casey's General Stores

 

Toowoomba Speedway is advertising its 2017/18 season:

 

http://toowoombaspeedway.com/default.asp

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'm really sorry to hear of your wife's injury, but with respect, that has nothing to do with it.There would have been several options available to you to avoid being out of pocket after the event, without having to sue anyone.

For a start, if you paid for your travel with a credit card you would have been covered for any medical expenses and increased travel costs and/or accommodation costs due to the injury, from travel and medical insurance provided free by most reputable credit card providers, provided that the cost of the travel exceeded $500 in total.

 

Or - you could have taken out travel insurance which would cover it, frankly I'd not travel abroad without health/injury cover at the least because medical costs for non-nationals are exorbitant in most countries.

 

Seriously though - had this happened in Australia would you have sued the owner of the concrete step?

That was many years ago at a time when I didn't get sick or have accidents, so didn't need travel insurance; took it out on the next trip though. That would have been the solution, but many people don't cover themselves for the 9 or 10 million it might cost them to live out their lives as a quadriplegic, or are travelling. My point was I got to go through the NZ system, and as a potential claimant would prefer ours.

If it had been in Australia? Well it was a clear case of negligence, the overhang being caused by faulty concrete formwork, which I photographed fortunately, because when I went back the next day to get a better photo, the lip had been ground off, so I have two good photos, so I in Australia I would have expected to get my costs back in a settlement.

 

 

[kgwilson]

As a visitor to NZ you may not be covered by ACC (accident compensation commission). If you live & work there your employer pays an ACC levy for you or if self employed you pay it yourself. Everyone is covered even if you are on the dole. You get medical bills covered and 80 % of your normal pay while off work. If you are later assessed as having a permanent disability you get paid a certain level of compensation based on a scale. You do not have the right to sue for damages. Like all systems it is not perfect but I think it is better than most other countries. In 1981 I broke my arm in a Hang Gliding accident. All my bills were covered including physio etc. The bones in my wrist were shattered and fused together. They were prepared to re-break it & start again at no charge but I decided it was bad enough the first time & gave that idea away. I was assessed for disability & was paid $2,000.00 as I could no longer twist my wrist 180 degrees like before only managing about 90 degrees. Worked for me.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I was assessed for disability & was paid $2,000.00 as I could no longer twist my wrist 180 degrees like before only managing about 90 degrees. Worked for me.

Any scheme policy should be based on giving the victim a life as normal as possible after the event. Minimising the number of cases, or the extent of the injuries makes it more affordable.

 

 

[bull]

Be interesting to hear whose idea it really was and "why" as opposed to just guessing why.No such thing at an open day at local RAAF base this year, plenty of aircraft up close etc - seems to suggest it was "someone's" idea as opposed to a requirement?

I think you may be right Frank,,,,,looks like overkill to stop gatecrashers jumping the fence,after the mighty dollar to the detriment of the visual aspect of the event, bit of an oxymoron, want the money and no gatecrashers , but lets spoil the view with a fence,,,?????idiots me thinks !!!

 

 

[Geoff13]

My guess and it is just a guess, is it could have something to do with CASA restricting access to the flight line or the airshow aircraft.

 

 

[bull]

My guess and it is just a guess, is it could have something to do with CASA restricting access to the flight line or the airshow aircraft.

I heard a rumour it was to ensure that all patrons paid to get in and to stop people from just coming in in an aircraft and walking onsite without paying,,,,,money grabbing really ,over the top security to the detriment of the event , and view

 

 

[winsor68]

So when will we all stand up and say "enough is enough" and demand that Australia follows New Zealand's lead and separate ourselves from the USA's model of litigation for anything and everything?

Is the US form of litigation really the problem given hat they don't have these problems in the US...?

 

 

[jetjr]

I thought I heard the new layout was desgned to control public entering airside areas without some oversight, and no doubt paying up.

 

But a strong criticisim from regulators was free access to live prop areas

 

This fence is a std and cheap way to do this

 

 

[bexrbetter]

‘Mountain out of a molehill’ comes to mind about this thread. Like most things, you can’t please everybody

I grew up with Rallying and Motorcross, 2 sports where you are completely immersed with the machines and drivers/riders at the events, and still are, and it's something I enjoy very much. Motor racing used to be the same but now you're lucky these if you can even see the cars without binoculars through 2 or 3 layers of mesh.

 

I also used to love going to museums, especially Melbourne as a kid with rooms stacked to the roof with interesting stuff, but in recent times they now have large rooms with just 2 or 3 items and a theme with lots of fancy lights and certainly no hands on any more.

 

That's me, that's what, and many other things I have seen change over the years in the interest of protecting ourselves from ourselves, or rather, the insurance companies, as have many others over 50 years old.

 

I went to Narromine 2 years ago and moved around freely, didn't see any reports of damage or injury to necessitate these fences. I am disappointed.

 

‘ but my pet peave is how easy it is to complain as compared to offering ideas.

Yuh, well you're doing exactly that.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I guess it might pay to get the real reason for the fencing.

 

 

[M61A1]

Where do you get this poison; who makes up this "general consensus"?Speedway in Australia and the US is alive, well and in steady growth.

 

In Victoria the Victorian Speedway Council had 26 clubs; today it has 31, with most of them owning their own tracks.

 

They still have the voluntary Stewards Panel, which trains all the voluntary Stewards, which makes it possible.

 

This Council covers the grass roots racing, in small country towns and rural districts, which has never been forgotten.

 

In addition, there are about a dozen other speedways, including Avalon and Warrnambool which run the World Series Sprintcars every year.

 

http://vsc.org.au/

 

World Series Sprintcar tour of Australia is on again this season:

 

2017/18 DRIVERS

 

Speedway Sedans are still going strong:

 

Speedway Sedans Australia Inc.

 

Nascar is still going strong:

 

nascar - Google Search

 

World of Outlaws has just finished another spectacular season:

 

World of Outlaws Craftsman Sprint Car Series - 2017 Schedule

 

The Knoxville Nationals will be on again next August with plenty of Australians on the crews and in the spectator areas

 

58th Annual 5-hour ENERGY Knoxville Nationals presented by Casey's General Stores

 

Toowoomba Speedway is advertising its 2017/18 season:

 

Toowoomba Speedway - Ultimate Sprintcar Championship

There used to be a lot more to speedway than sedans and sprintcars. Alive and well is not a term I would use.

 

 

[Hargraves]

Be carefull HITC their are many industries that are totally dependant and reliant on (litigation for everything and anything) that we have allowed to fester to where we are now, as well as many spinoff organizations that could,nt exist if common sense did. The GBRMA is a classic case in point

 

Which allows companys to dredge and dump in inshore areas, while I can,t throw a single fishing line in off the rocks 200 meters from my home, and lets not mention the bias of the black indigenous industry towards the white indigenous population which is offensive to anyone who genuinely believes in and supports multiculturalism. Just thought i,d through that in eh. cheers Hargraves

 

 

[red750]

I thought I heard the new layout was desgned to control public entering airside areas without some oversight, and no doubt paying up.But a strong criticisim from regulators was free access to live prop areas

This fence is a std and cheap way to do this

That may well be the case. Static displays could be separated from movement area. See this map of Lilydale Air Show. Pink - car traffic inbound, blue outbound. Lots of marshalls.