Not-Kosh 2018 Proposal ...

[Possum1]

Who is prepared to take responsibility?

Hopefully the insurance company who wrote your club/airfield's public liability policy whom you honestly informed of the number of warm bodies who were likely to turn up, the number of volunteer helpers and the number of fly-ins held per annum.

 

 

[apm]

I have had no dealings with CASA personally to form a judgement, and this is not aimed at them, just a note that you're not as helpless as you might think.

A recent discussion with CASA, I found them to be very accomodating and reasonable, I had contacted them to request a variation to a rule that was negatively affecting me, turns out no rule existed, it was a SAAA interpretation of the rules that was giving me grief. So sporting bodies can be worse than the regulator.

 

.Who is prepared to take responsibility?

This liability crap infuriates me.

 

I take responsibility for me!

 

If ever I get hurt, I dont blame anyone else, it is my responsibility for assesing personal risks. When I wake up and get out of bed, I am thankful, but very well know it may be for the last time. Every day is a bonus, not a right, so I try to fill them doing what I enjoy. Many things I do are very risky, including interaction with others, thats my choice.

 

Dont blame me if you get hurt when near me, it was your choice to be at that spot in time.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

It seems by their definition that a flyin with public notice (like maybe notice on a public forum such as this?) is an air display.But in the example it mentions for a competition or event so I am not sure how a flyin for a flyins sake stacks up.

Administering this would have to be a great gig for a CASA officer.

 

 

[Downunder]

Administering this would have to be a great gig for a CASA officer.

Doesn't look like they are downsizing. Current vacancies | Civil Aviation Safety Authority

 

 

[bexrbetter]

A recent discussion with CASA, I found them to be very accomodating and reasonable,

When I started my motorcycle club many warned me against big bad Motorcycling Australia, couldn't have been further from the truth, MA were just great, and very flexible helping me to establish my targets.

 

So as yet I do not carry a personal opine on CASA and will stay open until I have had experience with them.

 

 

[farri]

This liability crap infuriates me.I take responsibility for me!If ever I get hurt, I dont blame anyone else.

Well! At least that makes two of us!

 

Frank

 

 

[jetjr]

And thats the kick in the nuts, even if the person hurt or worse is well aware of the risks, the person responsible for the event - and they will find one - will be hounded by insurance companies legal team whose aim is avoiding a payout. Could even be your superfund or bank.

 

The original pilot and their responsible view has little to do with it

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just a little reality here; the person injured must prove negligence to collect anything.

 

 

[jetjr]

Or seeking damages to third party property like the airfield runway, or trying to prove aircraft being flown outside declared use on insurance policy, or trying to prove death njury cause was excluded from life or TPD or income protection policy

 

Unusual for you to not be supporting the seriousness of liability problems and need for more regulation and compliance?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Just a little reality here; the person injured must prove negligence to collect anything.

Not any more.

It's common for people to make a claim hoping to get a smaller payout by the defendant to avoid going to court. They know they may not get far if it gets to court but the cost to the defendant is so high that it's cheaper and easier to just make a smaller offer for an out of court settlement.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Not any more. It's common for people to make a claim hoping to get a smaller payout by the defendant to avoid going to court. They know they may not get far if it gets to court but the cost to the defendant is so high that it's cheaper and easier to just make a smaller offer for an out of court settlement.

It's not common in my world. Don't know any one who has been affected, ever. Perhaps in America?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Not any more.It's common for people to make a claim hoping to get a smaller payout by the defendant to avoid going to court. They know they may not get far if it gets to court but the cost to the defendant is so high that it's cheaper and easier to just make a smaller offer for an out of court settlement.

I was involved in several cases where we settled out of court. In each case we would have been proved guilty. So yes, either side has the option to seek a deal, but it’s not correct to paint the defendant as low hanging fruit. It is not easy to prove the defendant had a duty of care.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Unusual for you to not be supporting the seriousness of liability problems and need for more regulation and compliance?

I’m not campaigning for more regulations; people are being killed by not complying with the existing ones. I am in support of RAA carrying out compliance and enforcement. That can bring the liability problems close to zero.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

So as yet I do not carry a personal opine on CASA and will stay open until I have had experience with them.

I very recently spent the better part of a day preparing an application for an aircraft to do a couple of 1000'AGL passes over a public gathering. In the past an email outlining the activity to our local CASA office would see an approval within 48 hours, two weeks tomorrow and no approval. Forget getting an approval to do a flypast at a funeral service.

 

 

[storchy neil]

Turbo I bloody well been saying that for nearly ten years now Neil

 

 

[turboplanner]

I very recently spent the better part of a day preparing an application for an aircraft to do a couple of 1000'AGL passes over a public gathering. In the past an email outlining the activity to our local CASA office would see an approval within 48 hours, two weeks tomorrow and no approval. Forget getting an approval to do a flypast at a funeral service.

The very spectacular powered parachute fiasco may have been the cause of some rethinking.

 

 

[apm]

I very recently spent the better part of a day preparing an application for an aircraft to do a couple of 1000'AGL passes over a public gathering. In the past an email outlining the activity to our local CASA office would see an approval within 48 hours, two weeks tomorrow and no approval. Forget getting an approval to do a flypast at a funeral service.

Seems to me that at 1000' agl you are operating within normal everyday flight rules, no need to waste the regulators time if no notam is issued.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Why would you bother to ask? unless of course it would be otherwise illegal? ...When you ask something of CASA you give them the opportunity to say no.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Why would you bother to ask? unless of course it would be otherwise illegal? ...When you ask something of CASA you give them the opportunity to say no.

CAR 156

 

 

[apm]

CAR 156

I think your taking 156 too literally. Unless there is a notam for the public gathering you could not be succesfully prosecuted. And the legal definition of a public gathering is...? And if every public gathering had a notam, just imagine the chaos. Even then CAR 156 2(b) gives you an out, simply navigate out & back to a point beyond the crowd, I cant see how it is not legal. Even 500’ would be ok, if its outside a town boundary. Your not wanting to perform an airshow routine are you?

 

 

[Roundsounds]

I think your taking 156 too literally. Unless there is a notam for the public gathering you could not be succesfully prosecuted. And the legal definition of a public gathering is...? And if every public gathering had a notam, just imagine the chaos. Even then CAR 156 2(b) gives you an out, simply navigate out & back to a point beyond the crowd, I cant see how it is not legal. Even 500’ would be ok, if its outside a town boundary. Your not wanting to perform an airshow routine are you?

Are you serious? And what has a NOTAM got to do with the legality of flying over a public gathering with the intention of being a part of the event? eg: ANZAC, local town parade etc.

 

 

[apm]

Are you serious? And what has a NOTAM got to do with the legality of flying over a public gathering with the intention of being a part of the event? eg: ANZAC, local town parade etc.

Appologies, I didnt realise you were organising an airshow for the funeral. In CAR156 there is nothing to stop me casually flying over a public gathering. if it was ANZAC or a funeral etc that I knew about, respect for those on the ground would cause me to try to not become a nusance if not wanted.

This discussion needs be over a beer at an informally organised flyin, much easier to get point accoss in face to face conversation.

 

 

[bull]

The 'Pickurplace' Lions Club annual sausage sizzle charity fundraiser held at 'Pickurplace' airport is not a Fly-In.It's just a great event to support conveniently located at an airfield.

AND some people just happen to fly IN too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

[bull]

I wonder if the judge would use the phrase "if it looks like a duck and talks like a duck then it is probably a duck"?I think if you are going to have a big flyin (and just a flyin) then I think it would be worth the effort to tick the boxes, after all what everyone seems to be hinting at is a little bigger than a little aeroclub get together and it would be a shame to bring unnecessary attention onto us from the regulator.

Ah but we have been doing that exact thing for years without your master guidance and advice 'sir, can I ask you what has changed,And just as an aside I was wondering [even though it has nothing to do with boat shows or races ] that if I organised a local sausage sizzle at one of my local beaches and a few mates just happened to rock up with their ski boats and took a few people out sking and did it right infrontt of the beach crowd, would I need permission and an event permit and crowd insurance and safetymarshalls etc??? just wondering,,,,,[bloody nannies]

 

 

[bull]

CAR 156

Technicly a funeral is by invite only most times ,so I don't think it would be classed as a public gathering anyway.