Checking off in 19 reg

[iSteve]

So I’ve just completed my pilot certificate and the instructors won’t check me off in my 19 built Plane. I’m based in Tyabb Vic.

 

Are there any instructors out there that will check me off in my Morgan Cheetah?

 

 

[robinsm]

get a new instructor...

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

So I’ve just completed my pilot certificate and the instructors won’t check me off in my 19 built Plane. I’m based in Tyabb Vic.Are there any instructors out there that will check me off in my Morgan Cheetah?

Not quite sure what you mean by being 'checked off' but I'm guessing you mean you'd like someone to show you how to fly your own plane rather than the one you learned in? Because if you have an RPC you don't have to be endorsed onto a different type, though of course it's advisable if you're new and the type is very different from the one you trained in.

 

Either way, you don't need an instructor, just someone who has a pilot certificate (so that they are allowed to handle the controls) and, in this case, preferably someone who has plenty of experience in a Cheetah. Should be a few of them around your area? Might be just a case of putting the word out without the requirement for them to be an instructor.

 

 

[iSteve]

Exactly!

 

So I don’t have my passenger endorsement yet so I’m looking for an instructor

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Yes ... well if you found someone who has an RPC and is familiar with the Cheetah and has a pax endorse and is willing to be PIC then he doesn't need to be an instructor ...

 

Depending on him/her and also on the flight manual he/she might have to be in the left hand seat. Some aircraft have both seats as command seats, some only the left seat. But some time for you in the right seat might be enough to get you familiarised enough?

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Do your instructors give a reason for not flying in your aircraft?

 

 

[robinsm]

I am surprised that you did not train in your 19 reg aircraft.

 

 

[scre80]

I am surprised that you did not train in your 19 reg aircraft.

You can’t as far as I know. For me, I had a CFI come up with me for some cross training. And regularly have an instructor friend come up with me.

 

 

[robinsm]

If you built the aircraft you can be trained in it. I did it and had no problems. Check with RAA Aus .

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Tyabb (where I learned to fly in a Gazelle) instructors would not teach me in, nor help me with tailwheel conversion in my 19 aircraft. (some years ago). I only have brakes on the left hand position was given as the reason.... But a very experienced instructor at another airfield (Latrobe Valley) did teach me in my 19- taildragger. Willingly. So my advice is to ask around other airfields....

 

 

[iSteve]

Tyabb (where I learned to fly in a Gazelle) instructors would not teach me in, nor help me with tailwheel conversion in my 19 aircraft. (some years ago). I only have brakes on the left hand position was given as the reason.... But a very experienced instructor at another airfield (Latrobe Valley) did teach me in my 19- taildragger. Willingly. So my advice is to ask around other airfields....

Bingo

 

 

[fly_tornado]

this has changed over the years, the current RAA interpretation is that a #19 can't be used for training.

 

 

[SDQDI]

this has changed over the years, the current RAA interpretation is that a #19 can't be used for training.

Since when ft? I've done my bfr in my 19 registered as well as the start of my LL endo.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

The OP's phrase "check me off" is a bit confusing. Is he wanting to get a familiarization flight in his plane?

 

When he says he has "just completed my pilot certificate" does that mean he has received his actual certificate, or does it mean he's completed the requisite hours?

 

If, as others have assumed that he's wanting to finalise his solo work to get the actual certificate then robinsm is correct to say "If you built the aircraft you can be trained in it.". But to be more precise, you can ONLY do ab-initio training in a 19 reg aircraft if you ARE the original builder. Ab-initio training includes being "checked off" for your final solo work. What I understand to be the case is that if you are not the original builder of the 19 reg plane, you can only do endorsements and further training in it, AFTER you've finished the ab initio stuff.

 

 

[iSteve]

As he stated, he has completed his pilot certificate and would like an instructor to check off / familiarize with his own aircraft

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Since when ft? I've done my bfr in my 19 registered as well as the start of my LL endo.

when?

 

 

[robinsm]

I did mine last year and am due next year. No problems here FT.

 

 

[poteroo]

As he stated, he has completed his pilot certificate and would like an instructor to check off / familiarize with his own aircraft

In which case, an instructor is able to legally provide dual instruction - providing that the instructor is a current SI/CFI, is endorsed on type, is 90 days current and satisfies themselves that they are competent to provide dual in that aircraft,(61.385 applies). The aircraft should also be fitted with fully functioning dual controls. The question of insurance appears grey. If the aircraft has a current M/R, and it is signed off by the owner - then the aircraft is considered serviceable. It would probably be prudent to ensure that your insurer is advised that the aircraft is going to be used for your own instruction. They are likely to want to know some details of your proposed instructors' experience too.

 

Instructors are the meat-in-the-sandwich here. They may or may not be insured in a particular aircraft. They are often not provided with dual controls. They are often left uncertain of the aircrafts' serviceability because of sparse records kept by the owner/new owner. I have had to draw the line at no rudder pedals in a t/w aircraft and a pilot with 50 hrs total experience on t/w type. In the likely accident report - I'm going to be PIC and that's forever on my record. I'm pretty careful in what I fly dual in these days.

 

happy days,

 

 

[fly_tornado]

do all drifters have rear brakes? the ones without rear brakes don't seem to qualify for training

 

 

[scre80]

When my CFI signed me off in my Zodiac, it was dual control except for brakes. He had no issues, but we have a long runway, ie 1200m, so plenty of room.

 

 

[nong]

Instructors must consider things that a student or low experience pilot, would likely never have had cause to consider.

 

Many will still have raw feelings about the much loved and respected CFI who was killed in a Morgan because the aircraft was not fit for flight.

 

It is established, documented fact, that there has been some appalling workmanship seen in the construction of some Morgan aircraft.

 

Private owners often do not appreciate that it can be difficult and involve elevated risk, to train in an aircraft not correctly fitted out for the job.

 

Instructors have every right to exercise choice.

 

 

[scre80]

Instructors must consider things that a student or low experience pilot, would likely never have had cause to consider.Many will still have raw feelings about the much loved and respected CFI who was killed in a Morgan because the aircraft was not fit for flight.

It is established, documented fact, that there has been some appalling workmanship seen in the construction of some Morgan aircraft.

 

Private owners often do not appreciate that it can be difficult and involve elevated risk, to train in an aircraft not correctly fitted out for the job.

 

Instructors have every right to exercise choice.

Well said. Before I bought the aircraft and before i flew it with the CFI, it was gone over completely by a Lame 2 / 4 to evaluate workmanship and airworthiness. Only when he signed it off did we fly it.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

this has changed over the years, the current RAA interpretation is that a #19 can't be used for training.

Always check your facts before offering advice.

CAO 95.55

 

6.2 In spite of sub-subparagraph 6.1 (a) (ii), if a person has wholly built or assembled an aeroplane to which this Order applies, or a group of persons has wholly built or assembled such an aeroplane, then that person, or each of those persons, may use the aeroplane for their personal flying training.

 

 

[kasper]

do all drifters have rear brakes? the ones without rear brakes don't seem to qualify for training

If it’s 25 reg then the lack of rear seat brakes makes no issue - it’s allowed for training.

And if you need brakes in a drifter then you really are either landing far too far down the runway or operating from a ridiculously short strip.

 

I’ve perfectly happy memories training ab initio students in a 503 wirebraced drifter from the back seat and I had no brakes and no access to the ignition switches. Dual controls I did have are the stick n rudder controls plus throttle. That’s enough.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

The latest advice regarding Flying a new type from the regulator:

 

https://members.raa.asn.au/storage/raap-1.pdf