West Sale Accident

[turboplanner]

................. grade of pilot ? ......... or grade of memory ?

Grade of Pilot; if you are the absent minded professor type there's a problem

 

 

[turboplanner]

Downunder, Post #25 seems to show white space, but there's a link there right after RH -

 

 

[Downunder]

Saw the vid, all good.

 

"Funny" because the buzzer was clearly audible but obviously not listened to....

 

 

[cooperplace]

The retractable undercarriage system on some Cessna types can be problematical. David Squirrel told me a story about a C-210 in the 1970s, which had a partial gear failure. There were three persons on board, and one bloke held on to the trouser belt of another bloke,. . .

indeed. A relative has a 210 which he picked up cheap because the previous owner had forgotten to lower the gear....

my relative's father, now deceased, flew rocket-firing typhoons extensively and to great tank-busting effect in WW2, and when he was offered a ride in the 210 said 'I never fly with amateurs".

 

 

[poteroo]

A friend with a 172 rg had a similar thing happen to his plane, the hirer reported U/c trouble and was preparing for wheels up. Mate said no, we will come for inspection on another aircraft 1st, ended up convincing passengers to sit on the rear floor and put their leg out and hook it on the leg and pull it forward into lock, quite successfully done, landed withou incident.

I have heard of at least 2 x C210 incidents where the recalcitrant gear leg was 'hooked' by a towbar and pulled out into the down position. Did hear that there is a custom made 'hook' which can be pinned into a standard (nosewheel) towbar and then used to pull the main gear out into landing position. If I was a regular C210/CR182/C172RG pilot/owner, that is one of the very 1st items I'd have fabricated up by my LAME - and tested with the aircraft up on the jacks.

 

happy days,

 

 

[turboplanner]

If you're solo you can use a seat belt, but towbar seems a better option.

 

 

[M61A1]

Saw the vid, all good."Funny" because the buzzer was clearly audible but obviously not listened to....

I don't know what the pilot's workload was at the time, but it may just be possible that while focusing on communication, he managed to completely shut out the gear warning.

While having a play in a twin engine helicopter sim (yes, a proper one), when given a single engine failure. While ignoring advice to carry out a 'run on' landing (won't hover on one engine), I elected to see what would happen if a hover approach was carried out.

 

Things got real busy....in the process of trying to arrest descent I added collective, which induced yaw, so added pedal, which sucked up power, causing descent and in the meanwhile, I was so focused on arresting yaw and descent, I hadn't even heard the 'low rotor speed' warning blaring in the background, until someone asked why I couldn't hear the warning, not to mention the big flashing 'master caution.

 

It was a good lesson in HF and "load shedding".

 

 

[Chris SS]

Your on to it JohnNoise cancelling headsets I bet have contributed to quite a few wheels up since there inception

All ANR headsets do is measure the amplitude (volume) of the sound at around 100Hz and send an out of phase signal to your ears which ‘cancels’ the sound out at that frequency.

 

100Hz is the low bass tone that you hear from engine, exhaust and wind noise.

 

It does not cancel out engine noise completely, nor any other bells or alarms. I have done a few thousand hours with ANRs and cannot imagine them contributing to a wheels up at all.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Your on to it JohnNoise cancelling headsets I bet have contributed to quite a few wheels up since there inception

Hi Alf

 

I've been using noise cancelling headsets for ages and haven't had a wheels up landing yet!

 

Kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

indeed. A relative has a 210 which he picked up cheap because the previous owner had forgotten to lower the gear....my relative's father, now deceased, flew rocket-firing typhoons extensively and to great tank-busting effect in WW2, and when he was offered a ride in the 210 said 'I never fly with amateurs".

I was in the tower at Alice talking to the Controllers some years ago when a C182RG called for clearance to depart to Tennant Creek. As he was departing, I noticed the gear on one side was hanging down part way and told the Controller.

 

He said: It always does that but he will get it up eventually.

 

I was in Tennant a few days later and, as soon as I saw the Cessna sitting there I knew the pilot had got the gear up.

 

He just hadn't managed to get it down again!

 

 

 

[facthunter]

If you make having your gear down IMPORTANT to you it will be more reliably done. One of the silliest things one hears is there are only two types of pilot. Those who have had a gear up and those who are going to. I'm not the brightest light in the chandelier but I've NEVER had to be warned by the horn. The actual number of gear up landings out there is not that high. Some do collapse during the landing run. Some pilots have selected gear up instead of flap up immediately after landing. (Beech put the two switches near each other).. If you are really loaded you don't hear warning horns. That's been proven many times Before every landing have your own abbreviated checklist ... 3 greens, pitch fine, flaps set, Runway clear, landing clearance obtained ) or whatever your type needs Nev

 

 

[frank marriott]

A double check on short finals of Red Blue Green works for me.

 

 

[red750]

Going back many years to my flying days, I remember the checklist used on final - PUF - prop full fine, undercarriage down and locked, fuel pump on (in case of a go-around).

 

The manual gear extension on the Bonanza, something like 50 turns of the handle, was enough to give you RSI. The instructor pulled a swifty in the Piper Arrow, by turning on the panel lights on a bright sunny day. This dimmed the 3 greens such that it looked like they were not on.

 

 

[M61A1]

If you make having your gear down IMPORTANT to you it will be more reliably done. One of the silliest things one hears is there are only two types of pilot. Those who have had a gear up and those who are going to. I'm not the brightest light in the chandelier but I've NEVER had to be warned by the horn. The actual number of gear up landings out there is not that high. Some do collapse during the landing run. Some pilots have selected gear up instead of flap up immediately after landing. (Beech put the two switches near each other).. If you are really loaded you don't hear warning horns. That's been proven many times Before every landing have your own abbreviated checklist ... 3 greens, pitch fine, flaps set, Runway clear, landing clearance obtained ) or whatever your type needs Nev

I have flown with a maintenance test pilot who used to fly jets....even in a Bell 206 , he used to check "gear is down and locked".

 

 

[johnm]

................. maybe that's the answer - always check prop fine, gear down

 

I confess in my narrow experience on types and flight time - I never do - cause planes I fly don't have that stuff

 

 

[red750]

ing. (Beech put the two switches near each other).. If y

On earlier model 33 (Debonair) and model 35 Bonanzas, the switches were 6-8 inches apart and distinctively shaped. The flap switch was flat, and the undercarriage switch was shaped like a wheel, so they had a distinctive feel. In later models, eg model 36, the gear switch was moved closer to the flap switch, but retained its wheel shape.

 

 

On the Sierra, the switches were reversed, but on opposite sides of the throttle/mixture controls.

 

 

 

[facthunter]

I'd like to see the gear switch guarded so it's a more deliberate action to retract. It's just too easy to lift it and it's a little thing. Big stuff has an unlock lever before it will move. It's a BIG problem (expensive) if you get it wrong and it's embarrassing. Nev

 

 

[red750]

As I said, it's over 40 years since I flew the Bonanza, so I may be mistaken, but I have a feeling you actually have to pull the "wheel" out a little in order to move it, not just flick it.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Yep

 

 

[facthunter]

It's too easily done is my point . People under stress or just rushing things bypass subtle feed back like what a little wheel feels like . It should be latched so it won't unlock while the weight is on the wheels.Nev

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Well a beeper is rather last century, needs a smart monitoring system with emergency auto-lower. But yeah, CASA would probably block that.

 

 

[Aldo]

It’s all about procedure if you follow the procedure you will not f it up.

 

Downwind checks

 

Breaks

 

Undercarriage- down 3 greens

 

Mixture - Full rich

 

Pitch - full fine or top of green

 

Fuel on and sufficient

 

Hatches & Harnesses - secure

 

Final

 

Undercarriage - verify 3 green

 

Runway clear/clear to land

 

Pitch - full fine

 

Follow the above and you will never land with the wheels up (baring landing gear failure)

 

Aldo

 

 

[facthunter]

There's at least one plane that lowered the gear by itself. There are dangerous aspects to that feature. Lever lock requiring deliberate over ride on the ground is the only safe set up for inadvertent retraction. For forgetting to put it down or( retract with floats) the abbreviated "urgent landing" checklist will always back up where you are at. Sometimes in certain circumstances there is not time for the normal check to be done, or you might get well out of normal sequence applying in a "standard " circuit. have a fall back minimum for such occasions . Nev

 

 

[cooperplace]

I've never yet done a gear-up landing in the jab and I don't intend to.

 

 

[facthunter]

A few of them have done a nosewheel "somewhere else" landing. Moreso in the early days. Nev