Transitioning to the right hand sides

[Gibbo]

A few instructors may be able to give me a pointers and tips.

 

I’ve damaged my right elbow tendons fairly badly and being a jab driver it presents a few control issues if I hit a pain point so I’m looking at learning to fly left handed. What pointers would you suggest? It’s a 300 hour habit.

 

It’s been a bugger adapting to a more left handed orientation.

 

 

[nong]

A few instructors may be able to give me a pointers and tips.I’ve damaged my right elbow tendons fairly badly and being a jab driver it presents a few control issues if I hit a pain point so I’m looking at learning to fly left handed. What pointers would you suggest? It’s a 300 hour habit.

 

It’s been a bugger adapting to a more left handed orientation.

This is one of those things where it is best not to construct a mental hurdle. There is, in a general sense, nothing to it.

However, there are considerations.

 

Regarding Jabs with manual flaps... sitting on the right side produces a less favourable mechanical angle for swinging the flap handle up and down but a better angle for moving into and out of detent position. If you have single stick and manual flaps, it will be hard to operate both at once from the right side and this could be significant, or even a show stopper.

 

If fitted with port facing fuel valve arm, it will likely not be directly visible, but you can lean to make it visual or do it by feel, taking your time to identify it's shape.

 

If you have Y stick and electric flaps it really is easy. As a precaution, I recommend you hire an instructor to oversee your practice run (s).

 

Cheers

 

 

[ben87r]

As for whether or not to do it I won’t comment on, but I will say some aircraft can’t be flown RHS single pilot.

 

As to adjusting to the RHS, once you have the skill (ie flown with an instructor for a few hours) it’s really quite easy. I very rarely fly RHS but can change across fairly easily now, it becomes most difficult in the circuit.

 

 

[SSCBD]

As for whether or not to do it I won’t comment on, but I will say some aircraft can’t be flown RHS single pilot.As to adjusting to the RHS, once you have the skill (ie flown with an instructor for a few hours) it’s really quite easy. I very rarely fly RHS but can change across fairly easily now, it becomes most difficult in the circuit.

Hi ben87r - that sounds like a challenge? - Which RAA two seats are you saying cant be flown from the right hand side? - I have flown many factory build and had no problem?

 

 

[ben87r]

Hi ben87r - that sounds like a challenge? - Which RAA two seats are you saying cant be flown from the right hand side? - I have flown many factory build and had no problem?

I’m not suggesting any, I’m not familiar with them, was just pointing out that some aircraft can’t. Each AC would need to be taken on its own merit obviously with the ability to conduct EP’s etc.

 

 

[facthunter]

Instrument visibility can be restricted from the RHS with some RAAus types and of course circuits are left handed as standard for a reason. The PIC sits in the left seat (except for some choppers etc)

 

The instructor has to cop the difficulties as part of the deal. I can only speak for myself as to using whatever hand. It's no big deal unless you only fly one plane (sort of thing). The more (types) you fly the less it concerns you. If you do things by habit and familiarity primarily, and have gotten into a bit of a rut, you won't be (as) flexible. Nev

 

 

[nathan_c]

Some aircraft operating manuals dictate which side the PIC needs to be on. I don’t know what the jab manual says but if it says PIC is on the left then you won’t be able to fly the aircraft from the right without another pilot in the right seat I.e not solo (and technically they should be PIC).

 

If the manual doesn’t state such a restriction, not withstanding all of the issue in regards to instrument placement etc, then please do a few hours with an instructor in the other seat until you are comfortable.

 

 

[ben87r]

Don’t know if I’ve seen pilot in command (PIC can be in the bunk and still in command) but definitely a pilot. Current type says that if flown single pilot it must be flown from the left.

 

 

[nathan_c]

Sorry you are right, the one I was thinking of does indeed say pilot. So in that case if you were solo then you would have to be left side no matter what, right side you would need to have another qualified pilot in the left

 

 

[djpacro]

...right side you would need to have another qualified pilot in the left

unless an instructor, the “qualified pilot” is just a passenger.

[nathan_c]

Yes but the way I interpret it is if you want to fly from the right seat in an aircraft that’s manual states “aircraft is flown with pilot in left seat” or words to those effects, you can not have a non qualified passenger in the left seat while you fly from the right as PIC. If you have a pilot in the left seat, I don’t see a problem with flying from the right if say you and a flying friend were going for a Nav and you wanted to hand over controls while you ate some lunch (a real basic example of swapping flying duties).

 

In reality, this is rarely an issue as unless you are an instructor, unless you have a case like the originals posters condition, there isn’t really any reason to be flying from the right seat at all.

 

 

[djpacro]

Suggest you read CASA’s onerous rules about pilot in command, passengers etc.

 

 

[nathan_c]

Can you refer me to the section you are talking about?

 

 

[djpacro]

CAR 1988 (of course, my interpretation could be wrong ...)

 

 

[facthunter]

PF and PNF are common terms as are CM 1 (Should that be crew PERSON?) CM2 CM3 etc. Planes are flown from both seats. The RHS and LHS can say "you have control" and the other acknowledges "I have control". If one leaves the cockpit you don't swap seats as you can't really be flying with no one in any seat. If one pilot was incapacitated you might get into the left seat but you could mount a case that you are more familiar with RHS and stay there if everything can still be done. You might get Doris Day up from down the back. If ALL controls are able to be reached from whatever seat. Sometimes this is not the case and the plane can only be operated from ONE seat which would be the LHS if one was so specified. On an F27 the pressurisation/ anti icing, can only be operated from the RH seat position but THAT plane is certified as single pilot in some countries. SP Plus one radio operator, slave, load manager or whatever title you might conjure up. Nev

 

 

[nathan_c]

I’ve just had a look at CAR 1988, and I’m willing to admit I may have missed something but I stick with my comment from before.

 

From what I read, if you have two qualified pilots in the aircraft, at least one has to be at the controls at all times (I.e there can’t be no one flying at any one time). The PIC is required to make sure this happens, but it doesn’t say the PIC has to be the one flying specifically. I also can’t find anywhere where it states PIC must be in the left or the right seat specifically, or that if the PIC is in the right that they must be an instructor.

 

So we come down to the requirement to follow the flight manual. In a flight manual that states the aircraft must have a pilot in the left seat, I still believe you can have a pilot flying from the left but the PIC may very well be the pilot in the right. Note this is not instruction, both pilots are qualified just one is deemed PIC and ultimately responsible for any actions or decisions made.

 

The problem for the original poster is that if the jabiru operating manual dictates a pilot is required in the left seat, then if he has to fly from the right he will not be able to do so solo as this does not meet the requirements of the flight manual.

 

If you believe I am wrong or have a reference I have missed, please point this out to me as we are all here to learn, but that is my current interpretation.

 

 

[facthunter]

If you don't clarify the terms you are using the scene will get confused. Hope this doesn't add to the confusion.

 

In a normal multi crew. (where the plane is certified as such and must have more than one person in the cockpit normally One person may be absent at a non critical phase of flight. Conditions apply.

 

The Captain will be in the left seat. If there's two Captains one will be designated PIC for a particular flight /leg /sequence. That would usually be done from the left seat. A captain who does a lot of training might wish to do it from the RH seat for recency . If it's the co pilot's leg he/ she WILL do the leg from the RH seat. Anyhow. except, see below. There must always be established a clear chain of command, so there's no confusion who calls the shots in an emergency, regardless of where people are seated

 

IF you see a two bar or such, "inferior" being in the left seat and the 4 bar type in the RHS you could safely assume the person in the LHS is under training and/or acting in command under supervision. If something goes very wrong the 4 bar superior being gets to earn his/her large salary as he/she is in command when push comes to shove and the buck stops you know where. (as it should) . Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

OR swap to a tandem seater, like a "Citabrcia" (spelling), or a Hummel.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[kasper]

OR swap to a tandem seater, like a "Citabrcia" (spelling), or a Hummel.spacesailor

Yes ... but do not try flying a citabria solo from the rear. It will end very badly very quickly ;-)

 

 

[nong]

A few instructors may be able to give me a pointers and tips.I’ve damaged my right elbow tendons fairly badly and being a jab driver it presents a few control issues if I hit a pain point so I’m looking at learning to fly left handed. What pointers would you suggest? It’s a 300 hour habit.

 

It’s been a bugger adapting to a more left handed orientation.

Anyway, Gibbo. I do not know your model of Jabiru. However... Refering to the J160C Pilots Operating Handbook (published by Jabiru) it says "The cockpit is designed to accommodate the pilot in command on the left side and all controls, instruments, selectors and switches are located so as to be within easy reach of the occupant of that seat."

Interpretation: The cockpit is optimised for the pilot in command to sit on the left side. Their wording is very deliberate and carefully chosen. They have been at pains not to state that the pilot in command MUST occupy the left seat.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I was driving a right hand drive car on the left side of the road yesterday morning and a left hand drive car on the right side of the road this afternoon.

 

I was spannering years back in a Brit bike shop riding left hand shift and right hand shift bikes including reverse patterns (Norton) and even foot clutch, hand gear change Harleys on a daily basis.

 

After a few hours on each, you just change over between them without even thinking about it for years to come.

 

 

[djpacro]

I should’ve suggested a read of the VFRG previously as the rules are easier to find and read.

 

Pilot in command | Civil Aviation Safety Authority You get one PIC for the whole flight so you can’t swap on the one flight.

 

Carriage of persons | Civil Aviation Safety Authority CAR224 is the one to consider. For the little aeroplanes we are discussing here there aren’t too many options. Student and instructor with instructor as PIC. PIC and passenger. Safety pilot if required by CASA Avmed. Ask CASA the meaning of “pilot assigned for duty” - you don’t get to make up additional roles of copilot or first officer.

 

 

[Gibbo]

OR swap to a tandem seater, like a "Citabrcia" (spelling), or a Hummel.spacesailor

I’m a little large for them. Lol. My choice of instructor is usually the smallest possible. I did see a nice looking biplane on plane sales the other week. Two stroke... mind you a smart turbo diesel would be interesting as a swap.

 

 

[Braveheart]

I am in a similar situation after a significant injury to my right shoulder while with the army so my left arm has become my dominant arm and am unable to move my right shoulder at all. A guess my question like the original author I will be better off flying in the right seat. I have a modified medical clearance but wonder if you can modify a Cessna 172 to put all the controls in reach of the pilot in the right seat. If I can no longer fly because of this Damn injury I will be completely heartbroken. Any thoughts.

 

 

[Bleve97]

FWIW, most of my Jab 160 flying is RHS, I only fly LH if doing a maintenance or ferry flight. I found the initial move to RH was only tricky from the POV of the spinner bulge being on the wrong side and it took a couple of landings to get the plane pointed straight. Otherwise, no dramas. If the weather's a bit curly and I'm taking a Jab to Tyabb for maintenance, I fly RHS because I'm more used to it, less likely to test the width of the strip :)

 

Recommended that you do a flight or two with an instructor, just to make sure you're not way off-line on takeoff and landing. The old whiteboard marker on the windscreen trick is good when learning it. I din't find that it made any difference when punting around in Warriors/Archers/Arrows etc.