Pilot injured in SA

[bexrbetter]

I thought my little crack was harmless enough, that being of the irony of surviving a plane crash in or near a Zoo and then getting your dues from a lion, but if it's affecting people then I unequivocally apologise for any insensitivity deemed. It was not the intent.

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't want to be a PITA either but it's probably the last thing the Pilot wants to read.. I like to be lighthearted and humorous but I don't get a lot of opportunity. Anyhow it's coming up to Xmas Party time. Have a good one. Nev

 

 

[Oscar]

Requirements have been in FAR 23 for many years now. Reminds me, must order that helmet for myself and get the chute repacked.

Occupant protection in 'ultralights' (up to and including LSA aircraft) is almost non-existent by design rule, by comparison with the FAR 23 requirements for both spinal (crush) and head/neck (flail) injuries. Overturn accidents are very common in 'ultralights'.

 

I have a (very early) Jabiru, which I have been re-building following what was evidently a fairly light overturn accident. Now, Jabirus play 'dead ants' quite a lot, but they still have a remarkably good occupant survival record - this is, I think, a pretty accepted fact. People have walked away from Jab. accidents where the things have been torn apart at the firewall with amazingly little injury.

 

Now, in the case of my Jab., the cabin roof had been impacted and the gel-coat and some of the roof 'glass cracked quite a lot - required a significant repair. There was a small amount of blood on the head-lining. The LSA55 Jabs are pretty tight in the cabin area, one would have thought that the roof deflection was the cause of that blood.

 

But closer inspection and evaluation of the damage, showed that the headphone 'hanger' bracket - which is well aft of one's head in normal seating position, and aft of the main bulkhead behind the seats - had been bent in a way that was consistent with having been hit from ahead and below - i.e. by the pilot's head having been flung backwards, upwards ( in relation to normal attitude) and towards the centre of the aircraft as the thing hit the ground inverted.

 

Jabs have the usual - and by regs, completely acceptable- three-point harness. My Jab had been certificated - meaning it was a factory-built, (and originally VH-registered) aircraft, meeting BCAR S, and with basically TSO'd seat-belts ( the release certificate on the seat-belts was still intact, and valid). The Jab. harness is very appropriately positioned for both lap and sash restraint angles for spinal crush protection..

 

Basic analysis of the evidence suggests that in the overturn case, a three-point harness allows the body to twist and rise from the seat, throwing the head initially forwards as strong declaration occurs as the front of the aircraft digs in, then rapidly backwards as the aircraft somersaults and the residual forward energy (relative to the occupants) becomes rearward (relative to the occupants) energy to be arrested.

 

In the tight and fairly flimsy space of an 'ultralight', there is very little room for head 'flail' before some part of the aircraft structure is impacted. Post #23 argues that 'this has been largely sorted out' in motor vehicles - which is fair comment: the ANCAP safety standards have effectively mandated curtain airbags for this reason, I believe.

 

In my opinion, in view of the constricted area and nature of an overturn accident kinetics, a three-point harness is pretty poor protection. However, the bloody stupid weight limitations on 'ultralights' makes it very difficult for designers to improve occupant safety.

 

Yes, there are some 'ultralight' / LSA-class aircraft that have at least four-point harnesses ( I believe a five-point harness is a far better option, providing anti-submarining capability for spinal compression safety) - but they need to be properly anchored.

 

Just because there are two shoulder-straps installed does not necessarily mean that you have additional security. I examined the Goulburn Sting double-fatality wreckage, and the shoulder-harness attachment points had failed and torn out of the structure. I have photographs of that damage; however, it is not something that anybody would want to see produced publicly.

 

Basically, we Recreational aviators fly under a regime that - due to a bloody ill-considered and rather ludicrous MTOW - produces aircraft that have minimal occupant safety. In flight performance aspects, they are really rather cost-effective and viable devices, but in terms of secondary safety they are heavily constricted for capability.

 

Or - to put it in rather more emotive terms: they are good, until it goes bad.

 

 

[turboplanner]

It's interesting that three point harnesses crept into aircraft; they started as a means of coaxing Americans into cars, and some were attached to the door so those traumatised by the spider web problem of how to get into the seat could be tempted in.

 

There is very little difference in weight between three point and four point, but the retention of the body is much much better. The anchor points are usually the weakest point as you found, the belts being quite able to slice you up. The car industry resolved that problem. and I suspect the aircraft industry could set some similar standards, however:

 

1. Cars are designed for head on crashes, and while this can happen in an aircraft too, you are just as likely to have the big impact in any of the three dimensions, but I would think the survivable impact g force would be less than a highway 100 km/hr collision.

 

2. Most overturn aircraft accidents are tumble over-nose or over-wing and nose, and quite a bit softer and slower than a car rollover.

 

It's all quite possible though.

 

 

[facthunter]

Pretty good comment Oscar. Without air bags you are probably going to get tossed about . An aeroplane structure is quite amazing. It can stand multiples of its weight (about 5 typically) How many motor vehicles could do that? but it's extremely light in weight. There's so many ways it can crash as well where kinetic energy figures can get too high to expect accident proofing to be effective except in ground running along prangs at stall speed or close as a max..

 

Re the LIMITING weights. An unbiased open investigation starting from the load to be carried and working BACK from that would come up with a more realistic AUW. . Usually the empty weight is about 55% of the AUW at best. The only way to make it better is skimp on things like brakes U/C strength and use Carbon fibre.

 

Realistically 2 @ 80 plus Fuel 100 Litres 72 Kgs plus cargo Clothes tie downs some tools a small tent etc 50 Kgs = say 290 gives a plane at min AUW of say 620 Kgs for a 2 seater. This is rough but not excessive for a workable weight. We've ALL done this plenty of times. Nev

 

 

[cooperplace]

getting back to the original topic, has anyone heard how the pilot is going?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Oh crap. It's my friend who flies here to all my fly ins. It's his VW powered Skyfox. His a great bloke and a great pilot .... hope his ok

Good result that, although I doubt if the poor bloke feels that way at the moment. . .

 

 

[Thirsty]

Pilot is fine physically. Not feeling too well mentally (understandable I think).

 

 

[onetrack]

With every activity that involves a major chance of head injury, the person wears a crash helmet. Every test pilot and fighter pilot wears a crash helmet. As aircraft got faster and more nimble during WW2, helmets improved to offer better head and neck protection. Even wearing a helmet whilst riding a bicycle is proven to reduce head injuries. If you want better head protection in the even of crashing your aircraft, you're well advised to wear a helmet.

 

As regards the attempts at humour after the crash - the pilot survived with minor injuries, and half of Australia is always ready for some "black humour" after an NDE where the person survives without any serious injury.

 

I've survived pouring boiling water over my groin area (whilst only wearing jocks), with devastating results - yet probably 90% of the blokes I told the story to, thought it was hilarious.

 

I thought otherwise, having suffered agonising pain and an extended recovery period - but to all those other people, burning your family jewels only meant hilarity.

 

I can understand their point of view, they didn't experience the event - but I didn't get angry at them, it all comes back to perspective - and black humour is pretty common.

 

 

[facthunter]

So now we tell him he should have worn a crash helmet.? Perhaps it would have helped and perhaps it wouldn't have . That is a discussion perhaps for the future but make it compulsory on a flimsy argument and you risk setting a stage for more "requirements" arbitrarily applied on untested assertions as we think this is good for you in a basic slow plane.

 

If most of your mates thought your boiled balls were something funny you might be more selective in picking your immediate compatriots, or keep it to yourself rather than saying such behaviour is common and therefore somehow acceptable because you were prepared to just cop it. Did it help? I would think not. That's MY point. Nev

 

 

[cooperplace]

Pilot is fine physically. Not feeling too well mentally (understandable I think).

Good to hear that he's physically fine. Mentally I think he can congratulate himself on a good outcome: it could have been a lot worse.

 

 

[slb]

I think everyone on this site would wish him well and hope that he will feel fit enough to fly again in the future.

 

 

[Butch]

I've survived pouring boiling water over my groin area (whilst only wearing jocks), with devastating results - yet probably 90% of the blokes I told the story to, thought it was hilarious

Ok you guys no HOT DOG jokes !

 

 

[Teckair]

I think everyone on this site would wish him well and hope that he will feel fit enough to fly again in the future.

You are probably right but I don't get how poking fun at him is acceptable.

 

 

[Teckair]

I really hope the guy does not look at this thread.

 

 

[rollerball]

Bolshy lot you Aussies, aren't you. Start a punch up out of any old thing. Pity you aren't full of peace and karma like us Poms

 

DO NOT talk to me about cricket because then there will be trouble.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Rain stopped play

 

 

[turboplanner]

Bolshy lot you Aussies, aren't you. Start a punch up out of any old thing. Pity you aren't full of peace and karma like us Poms DO NOT talk to me about cricket because then there will be trouble.

Love that Union Jack

 

 

[rollerball]

Love that Union Jack

ah, you've spotted the anomaly - not really, it's just that I'm retired now and wanted to come to somewhere that I have fond memories of as a young man, that's warmer than the UK and where life is much less hectic. Living in the rural Dordogne is like the UK back in the 60s - lovely friendly people, not a lot of traffic, and neighbours who care about you and you about them. It helps to speak French of course

 

 

[turboplanner]

Bolshy lot you Aussies, aren't you. Start a punch up out of any old thing. Pity you aren't full of peace and karma like us Poms

I'm helping in a Planning brawl at Culloden. THAT was a fight; the redcoats killed 1400 in 40 minutes, then rather than take prisoners, polished off another 7 - 8 hundred later in the day.

 

It seems Cumberland had a hissy fit that day.

 

 

[rollerball]

I'm helping in a Planning brawl at Culloden. THAT was a fight; the redcoats killed 1400 in 40 minutes, then rather than take prisoners, polished off another 7 - 8 hundred later in the day.It seems Cumberland had a hissy fit that day.

No wonder Nicola Sturgeon is such a sourpuss, eh.....

Mind you, the other lot would have done the same if they'd got the chance.

 

 

[boleropilot]

hey Rolly, you watch the footy last night?

 

BP

 

 

[Snoopy]

ATSB investigating a 55-reg non-fatality?????????????

Advertiser reported RAAus investigating but other sources reported ATSB

 

 

[rollerball]

hey Rolly, you watch the footy last night?BP

Nah.... too busy cutting my toenails. Or do you mean the rugby league? As you're 'a real man' and a pilot to boot you must do. Sadly where I live I can only get Freesat TV so I don't think it was covered. Since learning the result I have managed to drown my sorrows and although touch and go, I'll probably survive in the certain knowledge that there's always next time. And after slaughtering you in the ONLY game that matters, rugby union, we have to let you win something because we know how important pride is to you guys

 

 

[Ausstork]

Point taken

He landed on a chicken farm in fact. Why does the media talk BS. He was nowhere near the zoo.