BASIC CLASS 2 - PRIVATE PILOT MEDICAL ANNOUNCED!

[SSCBD]

Real photo - I wonder how many of these fighter pilots would pass an Australian Medical

 

 

[Yenn]

Funny thing but all of the CASA people I come into contact with would not be considered overweight. I admit that I don't know many, but the few I do know are pretty fit. They are not office wallas.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Real photo - I wonder how many of these fighter pilots would pass an Australian Medical [ATTACH=full]52986[/ATTACH]

better than what I've seen roll out of the cockpit of commercial passenger aircraft.

 

 

[facthunter]

You don't pull 7G in a commercial Jet. Pulling high G does require some fitness... Whatever they look like they have met the Class one standards. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

On a different note. I got my RAMPC approved yesterday. I sent it to CASA on Jan 10.

 

They blame computer failures and also seemed to lose half of my application. I must say that they were very helpful on the phone, but computers seem to be one of our biggest causes of failure.

 

 

[David Isaac]

On a different note. I got my RAMPC approved yesterday. I sent it to CASA on Jan 10.They blame computer failures and also seemed to lose half of my application. I must say that they were very helpful on the phone, but computers seem to be one of our biggest causes of failure.

On ya Yenn. You must be a healthy incident free ol bastard ... LOL. Must be that ACT end air.

 

 

[kgwilson]

It's not the computers, it's the idiots or poorly trained people who use them and those who write software that was not correctly specified in the first place. The computer does exactly what it is told to do within the limits of the software it uses. Garbage in = garbage out and data in = nothing if the software doesn't know how to deal with it & the checks & balances are weak or non exsitent.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Congratulations Yenn

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Anyone else noticed that government websites are usually the ones that don't work as advertised, are slow and generally suck? About like the bodies that have them, I guess.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I spent 25 years in the Information Services section within the Dairy industry in NZ. It wasn't just about technology but assuring the highest level of service with the best technology. I had a lot of contact with other IT professionals from all types of corporations to government departments. Invariably decisions made on solutions for Government Depts were made by Managers who knew nothing about the technology or how it should be used but were influenced by high powered sales people who had managed to con other large organisations into buying their systems. The Germans were best at this & most Gov't Depts bought SAP. They would make all sorts of promises but SAP was/is probably the most rigid of all ERP solutions and efforts to make it fit the business were fraught with problems due to its inflexibility. This then required work around's that caused other issues and operational modifications. The results were often disastrous & the costs enormous. It didn't matter, the government always paid while they (software suppliers) laughed all the way to the bank. The budgets blew out by hundreds of percent & by then they were in so deep they couldn't get out & kept paying.

 

One of Murphys Laws in business is "Technology is dominated by those who manage what they do not understand". Very true when it comes to Governments. SAP is the back end to Centrelinks web front end. SAP was designed before Web interfaces were even thought of. The Centrelink UI is the worst I have ever encountered

 

 

[rgmwa]

The company I worked for used SAP. I once asked the IT people what it stood for and was told `Sorrow And Pain'.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I investigated a company with SAP. By the time they went broke, the SAP implementation had cost more than the market capitalisation of the company. Their managers were running the company on Excel spreadsheets because they couldn't get useful information out of SAP. This was nearly 20 years ago.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

The Queensland Health payroll system is about the worst disaster I've heard of. That should have cost a few million ended up at hundreds of millions and I'm not sure if it works. Haven't heard that anybody got fired/jailed etc.

 

About 20 years ago a Lycoming guy gave a talk at the local aero club. When Lycoming got all computerised they ended up having to put all the people doing it in a secure area with guards to prevent the employees from getting at them.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

CASA has posted out an email on this topic today.

 

Basically saying the commercial licence medical requirements will come into effect 1st March. That is non-passenger carrying commercial pilots will not need a Class 1 medical.

 

Of course as as has been discussed everywhere this continues to be applicable to only a very small group of pilots - very few commercial pilots are likely to want to be restricted in their work options so most will continue to need a Class 1. I doubt there will be many pilots whose only flying for their entire futures will be restricted to non passenger flying. Even the Ma and Pa flying school ( of which there are very few left)do the odd but of charter. Given that most instructors are young new pilots on their way to the airlines - they are not going to restrict their employment prospects.

 

The one bit of light on the horizon is the new CASA announcement has not said anything about additional limitations on top of the Austroads medical standards for the basic class 2 for private. ( they did say in the previous release they would add “aviation specific” extra limitations on the Austroads standards. ). That’s probably an oversight and I shouldn’t have mentioned it.

 

First aviation medical reform commences 1 March 2018

 

A Class 2 medical certificate will be an option for pilots operating commercial flights that do not carry passengers from 1 March 2018. This applies to operations with a maximum take-off weight of less than 8618 kilograms and is likely to be of specific benefit for aerial agriculture flights, flight instruction or flight examination. Currently pilots must have a Class 1 medical for these operations.

 

These changes will be applied automatically with no action required by industry.

 

The reform recognises that the risk for certain commercial operations do not require the higher level of control provided under the Class 1 medical certificate regime.

 

It will assist in broadening the pool of experienced pilots that are able to offer flight instruction—offering benefits to current and future student pilots.

 

This is the first of the changes to improve the aviation medical system announced late last year.

 

Future improvements on track

 

The second of the announced changes is on track to be implemented from early April 2018. It will allow all designated aviation medical examiners (DAMEs) to issue Class 2 medicals on the spot without reference to CASA, unless the DAME elects to refer the application to CASA.

 

Allowing DAMEs to directly issue Class 2 medicals should simplify and speed up the medical process for hundreds of applicants each month.

 

The third part of the reforms – the new Basic Class 2 medical certificate – is on schedule to be introduced in the middle of 2018.

 

Find out more on the CASA website.

 

 

[coljones]

The new class 2 rules will allow for a range of commercial non-passenger activities including being an instructor. The Basic Class 2 is predicated on the Commercial AusRoads standards. What we don't know is if it will allow a Conditional (medically constrained) Commercial licence holder to have a Basic Class 2 medical. The devil is all in the detail - like the RAMPC.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

The new class 2 rules will allow for a range of commercial non-passenger activities including being an instructor. The Basic Class 2 is predicated on the Commercial AusRoads standards. What we don't know is if it will allow a Conditional (medically constrained) Commercial licence holder to have a Basic Class 2 medical. The devil is all in the detail - like the RAMPC.

Yes it does - there has never been any suggestion that a commercial licence could be covered by a basic class 2. There has only ever been suggestion that a basic class 2 will apply to private pilots.

 

From my reading you could never even read into it or between the lines that the basic class 2 was ever destined for commercial operations.

 

But The commercial class 2 is actually a Trojan horse (with a kick)

 

Of course most instructors are not going to stay instructors. Most are young guys/girls on their way to becoming something else ( with passengers). So there’s no way this option will help them they’ll need a class one so they can grab any opportunity that arises. (and they will all have a class 1 already and will pass a class 1 anyway. ) and if they are an instructor who flies occasional charter or flies someone for any form of remuneration then they have to have that class 1 at the time as well. So the actual number of people who would be happy to have a class 2 commercial is actually probably pretty small. So it’s great for a very small number of commercial guys. But good for them.

 

But what’s interesting to me is how it was not something that was being asked for and is not the major demand (which is medical reform for private pilots ) and which is driven by changes in ONLY private pilot medicals around the world.

 

Strikes me as a “give something not asked for to a group who won’t use it much”, then that group will say to the group who did ask and didn’t get “stop making waves you’ll spoil it for us”.

 

Divide and conquer.

 

 

[coljones]

Yes it does - there has never been any suggestion that a commercial licence could be covered by a basic class 2. There has only ever been suggestion that a basic class 2 will apply to private pilots.From my reading you could never even read into it or between the lines that the basic class 2 was ever destined for commercial operations.

But The commercial class 2 is actually a Trojan horse (with a kick)

 

Of course most instructors are not going to stay instructors. Most are young guys/girls on their way to becoming something else ( with passengers). So there’s no way this option will help them they’ll need a class one so they can grab any opportunity that arises. (and they will all have a class 1 already and will pass a class 1 anyway. ) and if they are an instructor who flies occasional charter or flies someone for any form of remuneration then they have to have that class 1 at the time as well. So the actual number of people who would be happy to have a class 2 commercial is actually probably pretty small. So it’s great for a very small number of commercial guys. But good for them.

 

But what’s interesting to me is how it was not something that was being asked for and is not the major demand (which is medical reform for private pilots ) and which is driven by changes in ONLY private pilot medicals around the world.

 

Strikes me as a “give something not asked for to a group who won’t use it much”, then that group will say to the group who did ask and didn’t get “stop making waves you’ll spoil it for us”.

 

Divide and conquer.

I said "The new class 2 rules will allow for a range of commercial non-passenger activities including being an instructor." I didn't say that this applied to "Basic Class 2", which is a different beast.I am not a mouthpiece for CASA but it would appear that the (full) Class 2 Medical change is for the more mature end of the Instructor spectrum who "might" find it difficult to maintain a Class 1 Medical, or those who don't want to go through the hassle of a Class 1 but want to maintain a place in the industry so they can continue to earn a quid or they like flying and instructing (and getting paid). If I was a youngster I would be seeking and maintaining a Class 1 medical to provide me with the flexibility to do a wide range of commercial jobs including being a senior captain on A380s and role changes at a moments notice.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I said "The new class 2 rules will allow for a range of commercial non-passenger activities including being an instructor." I didn't say that this applied to "Basic Class 2", which is a different beast.I am not a mouthpiece for CASA but it would appear that the (full) Class 2 Medical change is for the more mature end of the Instructor spectrum who "might" find it difficult to maintain a Class 1 Medical, or those who don't want to go through the hassle of a Class 1 but want to maintain a place in the industry so they can continue to earn a quid or they like flying and instructing (and getting paid). If I was a youngster I would be seeking and maintaining a Class 1 medical to provide me with the flexibility to do a wide range of commercial jobs including being a senior captain on A380s and role changes at a moments notice.

Sure I accept the premise that it will affect a very few mature pilots ( bearing in mind as was told to me yesterday by someone in the business, that Ma and Pa flying schools essentially no longer exist in Australia. )But given that is a very small number who will gain from it, it seems disingenuous of CASA to make great fan-fare to make the announcement as if it’s a Great Leap Forward and for them to keep the real wanted changes under wraps. Particularly when they suggested that what they are going to release ( when they release it ) is not what the (private) industry wants.

 

 

[poteroo]

Sure I accept the premise that it will affect a very few mature pilots ( bearing in mind as was told to me yesterday by someone in the business, that Ma and Pa flying schools essentially no longer exist in Australia. )But given that is a very small number who will gain from it, it seems disingenuous of CASA to make great fan-fare to make the announcement as if it’s a Great Leap Forward and for them to keep the real wanted changes under wraps. Particularly when they suggested that what they are going to release ( when they release it ) is not what the (private) industry wants.

I'm in agreement! CASA have only recently decided that we can have 126.7 as our Class G frequency, but then, just to signify their unhappiness at having been 'rolled,' (by >80% mind you), they threw in a 20nm radius airspace for CTAFs. Talk about dummy spitting!

 

Yes, this minor change to medicals is going to allow a few oldies such as myself, to cling onto our ability to instruct in GA for a little longer. My DAME says that once Avmed have you recorded for any specific issues, there is no way they are going to give you a Class 2 without the very same array of tests that they currently demand from a Class 1 renewal. That's progress?

 

The assertion by CASA that it would encourage old 'airline' pilots to come and instruct in GA is laughable. Most of these pilots never want to see an aircraft again - they're off yachting or blending wines down at the vineyard. It will help keep some older (lifetime) instructors going for a few more years. But other roadblocks keep appearing, eg, the onerous new requirements for ATOs, which is likely to see many of the experienced ones exit the industry because of the changes and the lack of CASA professional Indemnity insurance cover.

 

happy days,

 

 

[djpacro]

Yes poteroo, I just did my Class 2 medical and wasn’t much more to do (low risk for me but still an expensive add-on) the Class 1 so decided to do it thinking that CASA would take ages to introduce this new rule. Just cancelled my Class 1 application. Now to pursue that flight examiner rating (I’m looking forward to the test with CASA), need to work more to pay for PI!

 

 

[Yenn]

As I see it the basic class 2 will be very similar to the RAMPC. The big question is what will it cost. The current RAMPC costs what the doctor charges with no payment for CASA. I wonder if the basic class 2 will also be CASA cost free.

 

 

[kgwilson]

The so called basic class 2 may be an improvement but it is a long way behind the UK where the class 2 (daytime flying) was scrapped in favour of a self declaration by the pilot that he/she was medically fit to drive a car. The self declaration needs to be made once before the age of 70 & then every 2 years after that. There are no medical examinations required and no fees. This is pretty much what RA-Aus requires.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

The so called basic class 2 may be an improvement but it is a long way behind the UK where the class 2 (daytime flying) was scrapped in favour of a self declaration by the pilot that he/she was medically fit to drive a car. The self declaration needs to be made once before the age of 70 & then every 2 years after that. There are no medical examinations required and no fees. This is pretty much what RA-Aus requires.

Yep exactly right kgw.

IF it is as stated it will be a small step for a small number of people. The trouble will be in the detail that will be attached. It is the detail that has made even the RAMPC still out of reach for many pilots despite flying quite safely on essentially no medical under RAAus.

 

But CASA seem to be publically patting themselves on the back stating how good they are making it, when the 3 major countries we are comparing ourselves to are light years ahead of the pittance CASA are actually giving out.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

As I see it the basic class 2 will be very similar to the RAMPC. The big question is what will it cost. The current RAMPC costs what the doctor charges with no payment for CASA. I wonder if the basic class 2 will also be CASA cost free.

Well,...... Maybe not.The ausroads commercial licence standard is tougher than the ausroads private licence standard. That we already know. So already without any extra detail from CASA we know it will be tougher.

 

The next thing is that casa have stated unequivocally that they are going to add extra conditions onto the ausroads standard that they feel applicable to aviation. But as far as I am aware they have not stated anywhere what those additional conditions are.

 

I think we can be absolutely certain they will not be less stringent than the conditions attached to the existing RAMPC.

 

I would think they will be more stringent (knowing CASA ) but even if they are the same then it leaves a more difficult overall medical than the RAMPC.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The current CASA modified Austroads is a joke as we all know. Their add on package makes a Class 2 look easy. This whole basic medical will be just another joke if they dont make it the std Austroads one. With all this fanfare about the basic medical it will be interesting to see if they actually do what is being said