Looking at building a Pietenpol Air Camper in Canberra

[facthunter]

Historic aircraft do have a place and can (fortunately) still be built and flown by enthusiasts. Thankfully there are still some around so inclined. Yes I would certainly fly one if offered, without hesitation.. Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

There's quite a good movement of historic WW1'ish craft in Europe these days, especially France.

 

You could contact member Flyerme who flies his Nieuport many days per week.

 

flyerme

 

WARNING: Hideous images.

 

 

 

[Paul42]

Interesting point, Nev. That contrasts with my experience of the Jodel. It's also a home built wooden aeroplane but the design lends itself to considerable "improvement". From what I've seen of Bubbleboy's Pietenpol, that aircraft doesn't. It appears destined to always be a draggy high wing, with all the advantages (ground visibility, slow flying ability) and disadvantages that entails.In the dozen years that I've been modifying my Jodel, my preferences have changed quite a bit. I guess Paul has thought long and hard about what sort of aeroplane he wants, and knows it's a damned big project; who knows what power plants will be available in a decade when it's ready to fly.

Hi Guys,

A piet suits the sort of flying that I will be doing in 3-5 years (low, slow...like me by then :) ) It seems like a good project that I can build and eventually fly. I have known a few Piet pilots are they are a good bunch :).

 

As far as the engine goes, Fords are more authentic but they are like rocking horse poo to find. Corvairs are a sturdy engine but parts availability in Aus?

 

Aeromomentum are doing new blueprinted Suzuki engines with a 2.25:1 ratio, so they are an option. I know that I will have to decide before I start on the fuse so the search is on :)

 

Thanks again for all your advice, this is a great group to be a part of.

 

Clear Skies

 

Paul

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Aeromomentum are doing new blueprinted Suzuki engines with a 2.25:1 ratio, so they are an option.

Suzy G13BB are very well known in Oz, readily available, and a few people specialise in them. They are cheap, and individual PSRUs are available from a number of sources.

 

Raven Redrives USA

 

Aeromomentum USA

 

Autoflight NZ

 

Airtrikes Canada

 

and others, and you will find them on EBay as well.

 

PSRU Aircraft Gear Box fits Suzuki Geo G10 G13 G15 G16 Subaru Honda and others | eBay

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Paul who says you have to select an engine before starting the build? It's probably the most expensive part, and will sit and rust (and even become obsolete) during the years it will take to build all the airframe bits.

 

During the next few years all sorts of power options are likely to become available. When you finally select one, you can design the engine mount to place it in the best location for CoG purposes.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

During the next few years all sorts of power options are likely to become available.

Very true, I knew of three, you guys now know one of them, and there's 2 more coming shortly.

 

 

[facthunter]

I agree that with a project like this , you would have to decide on the engine pretty much at the start. the "proper" (ideal) motor would be a big part of the concept in toto. The ideal motor would be a primitive slow turning Radial with a large dia prop. That's going to be heavy and rare. Geared down motors are always "busy" sounding. I'm not a great fan of the flat 6 Chev Corvair motor. It's a long time since they were new and hanging around wreckers yards in mud and dog bones doesn't do much for them. IF you got a GOOD condition one cheap enough you COULD start from there, but It's also hard to get the inlet set up right on that engine.

 

The original Ford 4 cyl was appropriate and heavy at the time and the wing can lift the weight and it counterbalances the pilot. If you reduce the engine weight a LOT (and you can) you will have to lengthen the nose or move the wing back. It's already a bit hard to get in under the wing. A common fault with this type of design. The top wing on the Tiger moth was swept back to aid access to the front cockpit The Gypsy moth wasn't. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

Access for the pilot is improved by making a separate trailing edge section over the top of the fuselage and hinging it from the rear spar. When you want to get in, you unlock the folding section, flip it up and climb in.

 

Then fold down and lock into place for flight.

 

Access to the front cockpit is a real contortionist's act. If I was building one, I would design a hatch that was hinged on a stringer, and swung outwards like a car door.

 

 

[Paul42]

Paul who says you have to select an engine before starting the build? It's probably the most expensive part, and will sit and rust (and even become obsolete) during the years it will take to build all the airframe bits.During the next few years all sorts of power options are likely to become available. When you finally select one, you can design the engine mount to place it in the best location for CoG purposes.

Hi matey,

No one said I have to buy an engine now, I mean that I will need to select a general type so I know which fuselage option to build (when I get that far that is) long or short to keep the CoG in range.

 

 

[Paul42]

Suzy G13BB are very well known in Oz, readily available, and a few people specialise in them. They are cheap, and individual PSRUs are available from a number of sources.Raven Redrives USA

 

Aeromomentum USA

 

Autoflight NZ

 

Airtrikes Canada

 

and others, and you will find them on EBay as well.

 

PSRU Aircraft Gear Box fits Suzuki Geo G10 G13 G15 G16 Subaru Honda and others | eBay

Hey Matey,

I was looking at the Suzi engines for an SE-5 airdrome Aeroplanes kit. heaps of power, cheap to run and the aeromomentum ones are blueprinted before you get them. It will depend on the weight for CoG and the power curve. Auto engines do not develop full power until they are revving pretty hard, which kills them in no time. Like everything in life it is a compromise :)

 

 

[Paul42]

How can you build a Bleriot XI? Do they have kits? Any links?Sorry - thread drift. :)

www.airdromeaeroplanes.com have a bleriot kit scale and full size. it is aluminium tube but doable and quick. Robert is a nice guy who will do what he can to help.

Good luck

 

 

[facthunter]

With a low wing loading plane you need to fly in fairly calm air. Back in those days they chose to fly early in the day and evenings. Nothing's really changed. Full size is fine. You might even cut the weight down a bit to get more climb and quick lift off, but more wind sensitive again. The 3 cyl Anzani wasn't the best thing for reliability, or power but it doesn't matter much if the aerodrome has clear areas at the right place. You are flying pretty slow. I still think that the biggest Kohler V twin with a belt redrive will be adequate. Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Auto engines do not develop full power until they are revving pretty hard, which kills them in no time. )

Well that's just not true, besides the Suzuki has well proven itself and Aeromomentum just changed one out of a commercial airboat at 4000 hrs.

 

The Rotax 912 runs at 5000+ rpm plus and it's piston speed is not much different than a Lycoming 0-360 at 2700 rpm.