ASIC Rip off pilots

[stevron]

As I start to renew my asic card , I learn that if I am an employee requiring a red ASIC card I pay $181 but as a pilot I need to pay around 290 $ , does that mean discrimination against pilots or is this another way of reducing the number of private pilots as the inconvenience and expense of enjoying aeronautical endeavours is becoming prohibiting ,

 

Give me a break , these people making these ridiculous burdens in the name of security have not really thought this through. Will an asic card protect the community I think not.

 

 

[facthunter]

Most people think if you own a plane you must be RICH. even if you built it yourself. So just hit them for a bit of dough.

 

As an RAAus pilot, your payload mass speed and range make you of limited value indeed for terror actions Trucks have proven far more effective. Perhaps it's time to re assess this stupidity, and get REAL.. Nev

 

 

[ave8rr]

Did my Renewal Application via The CASA web site yesterday. $256 from memory. Now need Birth Cert etc for application and a face to face with original docs before ASIC is handed over. I still wonder why an ASIC is required outside the "Ramp" areas of a security controlled aerodrome??

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

We've all had a whinge about it. Has anyone started a proper campaign, even a petition?

 

 

[Garfly]

Yes, I was shocked to discover that now we need to produce a birth certificate as well as all the other stuff!

 

After turning the house upside down I finally found mine. And to simplify and speed up the process I decided to drive down to Merimbula to get the formalities out of the way as soon as possible. Typical excessive (and ineffective) bullying from the security/industrial complex!!

 

 

[waraton]

Was reading the policy on the CASA website to try to work out exactly what the go is. I read that "at a minimum, all pilots must undergo the background checks for an AVID" literally this would mean power paraglider, gyrocopter, hanglider and paraglider pilots. So to me that reads at the very least every current pilot needs an AVID irrespective of where they fly.

 

"You need a valid ASIC if you require frequent access to a secure area of a security controlled airport that has Regular Public Transport (RPT) operations". The operator can determine which areas are security controlled but the intent is where RPT operators are parked/loading/offloading. ASIC not required at security controlled airport unless you plan to fly into one frequently there is no guide as to what is considered frequent.

 

I contacted Aviation ID Australia for clarification and they said they only issue the id and could not explain what was needed and why. It is as clear as mud. I wonder if we make it harder for ourselves because we think we need an ASIC when we actually only need an AVID (or not!).

 

 

[Downunder]

In the process myself at the moment. Security ID charging $223 but you need to find a "authorising agent".

 

If you know a club or someone who can do this, great, but auspost charge $44 if you can't.

 

I found the requirement for a birth cert and a passport weird....

 

 

[Pearo]

I like that fact that I can fly into Gold Coast or Sunny Coast, but if I want to get a coffee from the terminal I have to exit via GA gate and get scanned into the terminal. To get back air-side, I can only go via the GA gate where I have to make a call to get someone to open the gate, no viewing of ASIC or security screening required. Longreach is probably the most secure airport I have been too, they demand ASIC number AND aircraft rego. Even RPT pilots have to go through the bullshit, god help that they are in control of the plane and can do a "GermanWings"

 

Its a joke, but we are not alone. I was airside in the US at Henderson with keys to a 182, no escort and no TSA clearance and I know how to fly a plane.

 

But, I am sure the general public feels safer if you have that red ID card hanging around your neck, even though they have no idea what it all means.

 

I think it was a Micheal Smith comment (searey pilot that circumnavigated), he said something like "the more process, the less secure" and airport is.

 

 

[SDQDI]

In the process myself at the moment. Security ID charging $223 but you need to find a "authorising agent".If you know a club or someone who can do this, great, but auspost charge $44 if you can't.

I found the requirement for a birth cert and a passport weird....

Do you actually need a passport? What sort of craziness has this all turned into?!

I can produce my birth certificate easily enough but haven't had a passport since I was a kid and don't intend to get one.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

You can’t make this stuff up, it’s comical, just think “Yes Minister”

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Do you actually need a passport? What sort of craziness has this all turned into?!I can produce my birth certificate easily enough but haven't had a passport since I was a kid and don't intend to get one.

No you don't need a passport. In fact if you are an Australian citizen you can't use it as your main ID at all, only as the second line additional bit. You need the birth certificate. I rolled up with passport and drivers licence and some other stuff ( maybe Medicare card and some other things) "nope -go away and come back with your birth certificate. "

But If you are a foreign national you need your passport and visa.

 

Go figure!

 

 

[facthunter]

Our bureaucrats a some of the world's best. Techniques Designed in Britain Perfected in India and adopted/ copied here. How could we go wrong? Nev

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Yes, I was shocked to discover that now we need to produce a birth certificate as well as all the other stuff!After turning the house upside down I finally found mine. And to simplify and speed up the process I decided to drive down to Merimbula to get the formalities out of the way as soon as possible. Typical excessive (and ineffective) bullying from the security/industrial complex!!

What's more, it is widely recognized that every time a new security measure is introduced, any potential terrorists note it and immediately find ways around it. In that regard, the terrorists are winning as they make our society more and more restrictive. And of course, the pollies and security forces love it because they benefit from playing on peoples' fears.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

THE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH ASIC IS NOT TO HAVE ONE.

 

When will you learn that as long as you "buy in" to this crazy system you validate it and worse still, fund the bureaucracy that has a vested interest in its continuation.

 

What other course of action is left open to us?

 

Our representative bodies are to scared of losing their franchise from the Government to assertively pursue the argument against this ridiculous imposition.

 

We do not have sufficient presence (votes) to interest/motivate our political masters.

 

As individuals, most of us do not have the capacity/resources to fight this stupidity in the courts or any other arena.

 

What can the authorities do about an entire group that practices passive resistance? - Give in to logic/power of the people (otherwise known as democracy) - do NOT get an ASIC !

 

The only pilots who should have/need an ASIC are those that fly in/out of our major airports.

 

 

[SDQDI]

That's all well and good Skippy but if I am going to be using places such as Dubbo I am not going to open myself up to huge fines it just isn't worth it.

 

I would love to see a big boycot on asic's but knowing casa it wouldn't surprise me if their reply would be to just start policing it a lot harder and proscecute to the full extent available to them and I for one am not going to be the scapegoat to try and beat the system.

 

 

[ave8rr]

That's all well and good Skippy but if I am going to be using places such as Dubbo I am not going to open myself up to huge fines it just isn't worth it.I would love to see a big boycot on asic's but knowing casa it wouldn't surprise me if their reply would be to just start policing it a lot harder and proscecute to the full extent available to them and I for one am not going to be the scapegoat to try and beat the system.

It isn't CASA who make these rules. It's the Office of Transport Security who make the rules and are responsible for enforcing the ASIC/MSIC etc. Best to direct concerns to the relevant Minister.

Casa under the regulations do require a security check (AVID) for all flight crew licence holders each 5 years as mentioned in a previous post.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

That's all well and good Skippy but if I am going to be using places such as Dubbo I am not going to open myself up to huge fines it just isn't worth it.I would love to see a big boycot on asic's but knowing casa it wouldn't surprise me if their reply would be to just start policing it a lot harder and proscecute to the full extent available to them and I for one am not going to be the scapegoat to try and beat the system.

And that's how we all end up paying for a complete rort.

 

When ASICS were first introduced, I along with so many of my fellow sport pilots applied. Chaos resulted.

 

Took forever to get my litttle red label - What of security in the mean time? How many RV's, little Cessna's & Piper's flew into buildings or were hijacked? For that matter how many since ? (& don't tell me it's ASIC's that have prevented such disasters)

 

Many months later, got the tag - wore it religiously for every flight - landed at lots of little RPT's like Mudgee, Temora, Merimbula, Moruya, Orange, Bathurst, Armidale, Moree, etc etc

 

Applied for and got the extension.

 

In all that time, I was asked for my ASIC just once AFTER it had lapsed - just waved it and passed right on through (had to return it to the Gov. a bit later, apparently it belonged to them).

 

Couldn't see the point in renewing - never been challenged since.

 

The truth is everyone knows this is a stupid, totally illogical imposition that requires the cooperation of the flying/aircraft services based at airfields to implement - they know it for what it is and have either given up being unpaid police or never started in the first instance.

 

First point - your chances of a being asked for an ASIC is extremely low, better chance of being taken by a shark.

 

Second even if you are so challenged who is going to arrest or report you and by what authority? (ie non event).

 

Don't get me wrong - ASIC's applied to major airports have my full support. Unfortunately they are not even fully implemented there - check out the Pilots Union concerns about the screening (lack) of ground staff and the contract security staff themselves.

 

Australians have a long and proud history of ignoring laws/policies that make little or no sense - this is one of those.

 

The longer pilots are scared into compliance, the longer this truly irrational & costly imposition will continue.

 

Here endeth the rant

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

If you rarely need it then you could print you own ID card and wear it, it's quite cheap to do. If you are asked, no you don't have an ASIC but you have a ID card with you photo on it plus other ID available. Then if asked why no ASIC refer to the rules which state only required for frequent access and that you rarely visit (info is on this forum). If you believe they are likely to demand it call ahead and tell them no ASIC so they are required to escort you.

 

Australians have a long and proud history of ignoring laws/policies that make little or no sense - this is one of those.

Wow that brings back memories! Not any more of course, a more docile and supine group of sheep you would scarcely find.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

If you rarely need it then you could print you own ID card and wear it, it's quite cheap to do. If you are asked, no you don't have an ASIC but you have a ID card with you photo on it plus other ID available. Then if asked why no ASIC refer to the rules which state only required for frequent access and that you rarely visit (info is on this forum). If you believe they are likely to demand it call ahead and tell them no ASIC so they are required to escort you.Well said.

 

Wow that brings back memories! Not any more of course, a more docile and supine group of sheep you would scarcely find.

Careful - push sheep to hard, when their rumps are hard against the railing and they will run right over you & the dog - may be this is the point we, the Australian sport pilots, find ourselves ????

 

 

[Downunder]

Really, it should be the various aviation bodies pushing back on this...... but I guess it maybe the case of biting the hand that feeds them.

 

Easier just swept under the carpet and ignored.....

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't think you will get a lot of support from GA on this, though you might get some. We don't go to a lot of places they do and are much more flexible as to what a suitable landing area IS.. Nev

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I don't think you will get a lot of support from GA on this, though you might get some. We don't go to a lot of places they do and are much more flexible as to what a suitable landing area IS.. Nev

On the contrary.

There has been much debate and much push from AOPA, SAAA, the multitude of forums and chat groups. I have a vague idea ( but could be wrong) The Forster report had a section on ASICs and the feelings of the industry about them.

 

All to no avail.

 

CASA and the government have used intransigence over the ASIC as their evidence of going tough on terrorism and aviation security. They have made statements that they will not allow our airport security to be cut back etc etc making it sound as though ASICs are contributing to safer skies.

 

Easier votes from an electorate who doesn't know what an ASIC card is and who it is who has to have one etc. and at what cost and certainly who doesn't know how little they contribute to anything.

 

As far as joe blogs is concerned we all fly in and out of big airports and we all could be terrorists going to load up our Cessnas ( that's the only aircraft they know the name of) with bombs ( lots of them) and fly these fully loaded missiles into skyscrapers.

 

Stuff the government doesn't correct.

 

 

[facthunter]

The Government couldn't care less. Chester seems useless. They think airlines are all there is. and pilots come with the planes maybe. We used to have close to the best in the world, standards wise. Nev

 

 

[Ayecapt]

Was reading the policy on the CASA website to try to work out exactly what the go is. I read that "at a minimum, all pilots must undergo the background checks for an AVID" literally this would mean power paraglider, gyrocopter, hanglider and paraglider pilots. So to me that reads at the very least every current pilot needs an AVID irrespective of where they fly."You need a valid ASIC if you require frequent access to a secure area of a security controlled airport that has Regular Public Transport (RPT) operations". The operator can determine which areas are security controlled but the intent is where RPT operators are parked/loading/offloading. ASIC not required at security controlled airport unless you plan to fly into one frequently there is no guide as to what is considered frequent.

 

I contacted Aviation ID Australia for clarification and they said they only issue the id and could not explain what was needed and why. It is as clear as mud. I wonder if we make it harder for ourselves because we think we need an ASIC when we actually only need an AVID (or not!).

I have been thinking along the same lines for some time, but just assumed i must be wrong. Its time to find out!

 

THIS SORT OF QUESTION SHOULD BE FOLLOWED UP BY A ORGANISATION LIKE RAAUS. I will stop shouting now! It will take a legal opinion and perhaps a test case.

 

The other thing is there are a few petty beurocrats working at airports that think they know it. I bet they dont.

 

 

[Mick]

What gets me with the whole ASIC crap is that we pilots are forced into having to have background checks done at our expense, when the jokers that run the country have been allowed to self certify ( and falsely in too many cases ) their own backgrounds and citizenship!