ASIC Rip off pilots

[Garfly]

Yes, once more through the wringer, I'm afraid ... this time with birth certificate!! Your passport etc. is no longer enough.

 

Sir Joseph Porter KCB is now running the show.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

OK, ............... but the problem is that we won't overwhelm them with a show of disobedience. A few random pilots may cop very large fines while the rest will save a bit of money and wasted time, .......

Should have addressed this above - Peter it's not about overwhelming as such, or saving money and I certainly hope that no one cops a fine -

 

First - if all of us private/sport/ weekend pilots just didn't purchase an ASIC, some bean counter somewhere is going to notice the drop in revenue and hopefully go WTF!!!. (My guess there are thousands of us and only a handful CPL & ATPL that really need an ASIC) Dollars speak very loudly, we just might get a review of the ASIC, as it applies to us. Sure its a long shot but it breaks no laws or heads or wallets.

 

Second - Okay the long shot doesnt seem to be working, so we all (most of us) fly into an RPT of our choosing on a certain date (weather permitting of course), without an ASIC in sight. Okay this is a pretty random situation for the authorities, where & when do they focus their slim resources - answer is they cant/wont. They would look extraordinarily stupid if they tried. What would we be doing - showing ASIC for what it is, an ineffective, ill conceived, error in legislation that does not impact one way or another on Australian security (I assume there will be no explosive laden Drifters). We would need some media coverage for best impact (registrations carefully blanked out/avoided).

 

I guess we all need to ask ourselves what sort of a Government we want - I am not talking politics - just broad philosophy . For myself, I resent the intrusion of unnecessary legislation on my life. Its not the cost it's the principal. A Government that thinks it's okay to leave something like an ASIC (as it applies to the aforementioned class of pilots) on the books is not a responsive Government for the people. Its a BULLY that needs to feel just enough discomfort to get it to move, admit its mistake and take the appropriate action.

 

 

[boleropilot]

THANK YOU jim188 for your post - I have 200 hours flight experience as PIC that I have taken 10 years to accumulate - based on that frequency I believe that my need for an ASIC is NIL

 

in that 200 hours I have NEVER flown into a regional airfield that has required me to produce any kind of ID whatsoever - I did get an ASIC card at one stage because I believed all the c r a p about the need for one

 

for my trip to Cooktown in 2018 I intend to avoid at all costs airfields with RPT - if I think I may want to use one I will ring ahead - if there are problems then I will go somewhere else

 

BP

 

 

[boleropilot]

just remembered - I DID fly into a regional airport with RPT once - it was Lismore, for Wayne Fishers goodbye - sad day...

 

there was quite a big crowd and obviously a lot more aircraft there than usual - nobody was asked for an ASIC on the day

 

BP

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Garfly

 

I'm even more confused now.

 

I need to go through the wringer again this time with a Birth Certificate - that I did produce last time.

 

So I'm currently in possession of a current ASIC that is useless, as it does not meet todays new issue standard.

 

What the hell. Who is running this circus.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

I hear you Bernie, I used to have top secret defence force clearance & have held a current ASIC for the last 7 years, however on my next renewal I have to provide them with a naturalization certificate from 1970 as well as my current passport & ASIC. How bizarre.

 

 

[Garfly]

Bernie,

 

I suggest you give AviationID a call (02 6495 2881). They're not bureaucrats, easy to talk to and know the situation. (Plus, they're used to dealing with P'd off pilots. ;-)

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Garfly

 

Yes will do. May just fly up and sort it, as I have enough paperwork to avoid ....

 

 

[Garfly]

Yes ... lucky Merimbula is a pretty destination. But you'd better make sure you have all the info and all the documents they need before you make the trip.

 

Or ... there's the Skippy/Bolero option!

 

 

[petercoota]

In answer to petercoota's question (above):Aviation ID at Merimbula airport is one of the private outfits that are authorised to handle ASICs and AVIDs for the government.

 

Yes, they certainly deal with individuals. The process now is really cumbersome (not their fault). There needs to be a face-to-face element so it can't be concluded on line. But I understand you can arrange to front up, at some stage in the process, to an authorised person close to where you live anywhere in Oz. Anyway, I decided, instead, to take a road trip down to the south coast and get it all done on the spot. They took the picture. They sighted the documents etc. and so they can just send it to me when it's done. It helped that mine was a renewal and they already had most of my information - which included all the details of every place I'd lived over the past X-many years, etc. etc.

 

Even if you go visit them (it's at the airport so you could fly in!) they expect you to have already filled in the form online. (I hadn't so they allowed me to hand write it there. But they already had much of my info.)

 

You can find out more info on their website:

 

Aviation ID Australia | Professional ASIC Distribution Centre

 

And you can call them to discuss: +61 2 6495 2881

 

It's an awful process but the people at Aviation ID are nice to deal with, at least.

 

(Good that at least someone is getting actual benefit from this absurd Yes Minister scenario.)

In answer to petercoota's question (above):Aviation ID at Merimbula airport is one of the private outfits that are authorised to handle ASICs and AVIDs for the government.

 

Yes, they certainly deal with individuals. The process now is really cumbersome (not their fault). There needs to be a face-to-face element so it can't be concluded on line. But I understand you can arrange to front up, at some stage in the process, to an authorised person close to where you live anywhere in Oz. Anyway, I decided, instead, to take a road trip down to the south coast and get it all done on the spot. They took the picture. They sighted the documents etc. and so they can just send it to me when it's done. It helped that mine was a renewal and they already had most of my information - which included all the details of every place I'd lived over the past X-many years, etc. etc.

 

Even if you go visit them (it's at the airport so you could fly in!) they expect you to have already filled in the form online. (I hadn't so they allowed me to hand write it there. But they already had much of my info.)

 

You can find out more info on their website:

 

Aviation ID Australia | Professional ASIC Distribution Centre

 

And you can call them to discuss: +61 2 6495 2881

 

It's an awful process but the people at Aviation ID are nice to deal with, at least.

 

(Good that at least someone is getting actual benefit from this absurd Yes Minister scenario.)

Thanks for the info on Merimbula, a way better way to deal with a renewal than the alternatives, much appreciated !!

 

 

[Hargraves]

I,m a recreational pilot ie (beaches and paddocks) the beauracrats can tailspin till they dissapear up their own backsides and a more fitting place for them, I can,t imagine

 

 

[zodiacpilot]

On the contrary.There has been much debate and much push from AOPA, SAAA, the multitude of forums and chat groups. I have a vague idea ( but could be wrong) The Forster report had a section on ASICs and the feelings of the industry about them.

All to no avail.

 

CASA and the government have used intransigence over the ASIC as their evidence of going tough on terrorism and aviation security. They have made statements that they will not allow our airport security to be cut back etc etc making it sound as though ASICs are contributing to safer skies.

 

Easier votes from an electorate who doesn't know what an ASIC card is and who it is who has to have one etc. and at what cost and certainly who doesn't know how little they contribute to anything.

 

As far as joe blogs is concerned we all fly in and out of big airports and we all could be terrorists going to load up our Cessnas ( that's the only aircraft they know the name of) with bombs ( lots of them) and fly these fully loaded missiles into skyscrapers.

 

Stuff the government doesn't correct.

Sooooooo, when I decide to commit an act of aviation terrorism, should I apply for the ASIC first to give me access or just get over the top & push the yoke forward ??

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Sooooooo, when I decide to commit an act of aviation terrorism, should I apply for the ASIC first to give me access or just get over the top & push the yoke forward ??

In this day and age I suggest it's probably not the best to joke about this sort of stuff on a public forum (especially in a country that has no constitutional freedom of speech).

 

And no lion jokes either, very offensive.

 

 

[zodiacpilot]

And yet, if I stood in front of an audience of thousands, as a comedian, made the same statement during an aviation related skit, I'm sure most would 'laugh their heads off' ( whoops sorry,could be taken as inducing mass suicide). Jesus,( whoops,taking the lords name in vain) are we becoming so 'thin skinned' as a society that we can't see a tongue in cheek joke statement for what it is?.

 

Hargraves said, I,m a recreational pilot ie (beaches and paddocks) the beauracrats can tailspin till they dissapear up their own backsides and a more fitting place for them, I can,t imagine.

 

Wow, hope someone in pain after a lower bowel procedure doesn't read that!

 

Boleropilot said, I am not going to get it renewed, I am simply going to get a red identity card with my photo on it and carry all my personal I.D. on my person

 

and if anyone asks me for it, I won't say anything, I'll just hold up my little red card that's hanging around my neck and see what happens next...

 

and if some Nazi says "that's not an ASIC card" I'll just say "I didn't say it is, I'm just giving you my I.D

 

Wonder if someone in CASA has already contacted airports to keep a lookout for him?.

 

Careful Skippydiesel, I'm sure there's a law about inciting civil disobedience/unrest.

 

God,(there I go again) lets all 'get a grip', and no I'm not suggesting what some may be thinking!

 

Without prejudice!!!

 

 

[zodiacpilot]

Was reading the policy on the CASA website to try to work out exactly what the go is. I read that "at a minimum, all pilots must undergo the background checks for an AVID" literally this would mean power paraglider, gyrocopter, hanglider and paraglider pilots. So to me that reads at the very least every current pilot needs an AVID irrespective of where they fly."You need a valid ASIC if you require frequent access to a secure area of a security controlled airport that has Regular Public Transport (RPT) operations". The operator can determine which areas are security controlled but the intent is where RPT operators are parked/loading/offloading. ASIC not required at security controlled airport unless you plan to fly into one frequently there is no guide as to what is considered frequent.

 

]

 

I have tried to get YMIA to reply to me several times over the last 12 months as to their security areas, no reply, next time I'm up that way I will go in without a ASIC & approach the office in person. (whoops another threat of doing something illegal).

[zodiacpilot]

]

 

I have tried to get YMIA to reply to me several times over the last 12 months as to their security areas, no reply, next time I'm up that way I will go in without a ASIC & approach the office in person. (whoops another threat of doing something illegal).

 

 

[mnewbery]

]I have tried to get YMIA to reply to me several times over the last 12 months as to their security areas, no reply, next time I'm up that way I will go in without a ASIC & approach the office in person. (whoops another threat of doing something illegal).

ERSA FAC YMIA has your answer.

The answer is "A valid ASIC is to be displayed at all times while airside"

 

I make no claim as to whether the operations manager (phone 0428 596 871) should have replied to your enquiries. Probably should have, but the ERSA and NOTAMs are also there to be consulted

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I have seen this question several times befor - Have yet to see it answeared.It would be great to know - my bet 00.00 charges (which is as it should be)

Or perhaps not.

Unlike most of society, aviation law in Australia is covered by a part of the act as being governed by Strict Liability.

 

Essentially that means if you do something wrong you are guilty and reasons, mitigations or intentions not to break the law, but accidentally doing so, are irrelevant. You are guilty.

 

All crimes in aviation law are allotted penalty units. I haven’t kept up with the amount but $150 per unit seems to stick in my head. Could be wrong on that)

 

CASA is able to charge you, penalise (and take your licence) first. CASA is lawmaker,judge jury and executioner and also the first line appeal judge. Only after a failed appeal can you go to the administrative tribunal. If you want to fight it it has to be done as an appeal on the appeal not as the initial legal fight.

 

So the issue is that you might not have a problem BUT if you are bailed up for not having one you may well end up in the blink of an eye licence-less and/or owing significant amounts of money and having no or very limited legal grounds to try to get any of them back.

 

Experience in history over the last two decades I have been flying has been that CASA seems to have cyclic episodes of crashing down on pilots. Quiet for a while then nab a few guys and make examples followed by quiet again for a while.

 

I’m not sure I’d be comfortable betting on now to remain a quiescent time for them.

 

 

[440032]

Perhaps a timely reminder?

 

ASIC has nothing to do with CASA - it's not their baby. Never was, never will be.

 

And my question is, who is entitled to ask to see your ASIC? Who, as in who on the airfield? The cleaner, the gardener, the refueller, who? Serious question. Who, according to the regulations. I just can't see any mention of it at all. So if bailed up by somebody claiming to be important, are they? How do you know? What gives them the power to bail you up and check your ASIC? And then, if you don't have one, what happens? What is their procedure? Will you get tasered or taken down by Chuck Norris?

 

 

[facthunter]

If you are a bush lawyer, stay in the Bush. These guys have no sense of humour. Practicing pilots are just criminals we haven't caught yet. Strict liability is unjust but that's the least of their worries. They are THE Authority Right? You test it and they will make your life hell. There is a trail of pilots who have been monstered by CASA. IF you make the choice to fly a plane in this country, you do as you are told..or you won't be flying anything. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

440032. Anyone is entitled to see your ASIC when you are airside and it is a requirement for you to show it. The rules state it must be worn and visible. What you really mean is who can demand to see it and I assume anyone the airport has given authority to. The gardener could well ask to see it and if you didn't show he could then advise whoever does have authority that you are not wearing it.

 

I know it seems un Australian to be a dobber in, but on the other hand I consider it un Australian to always be questioning every little detail of what the law says and trying to be a bush lawyer.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

At big airports like cairns I have been approached by the federal police and airport security guys who beetle around in 4WDs.

 

At Townsville and Mackay guys of uncertain role in clearly marked cars belonging to the airport. In Darwin - a camera. “Hold up your card to the camera and move it in out and round about till the numbers came into focus.”

 

At emerald the refueler guy.

 

Have been asked over the phone for the card number somewhere -forget where. Might have been Uluru. Alice springs - had to say I had one. Showed it to the guy ( airport security guy) but he was not interested. As far as he was concerned my red one wasn’t worth his low level grey one. Insisted we could not go anywhere unescorted by him.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

You guys are scaring the crap out of me - is this a totalitarian society or what?

 

We have "authorities" (some say CASA some say not) who can hang you out to dry, rule on your appeal, send you broke and all without being convicted of anything. WTF!!

 

We have people who just want to abide by the law, simply because it's the law, no matter how nonsensical - WOW!!! Lets all line up for frontal lobotomies at our own cost.

 

To cap it all off we have delegated authority to the refueler "guy" (no offence intended to refuelers or guys) who on a whim can not only interpret the regulations to suit his/her sense of power but can start the ball rolling to "hang you out to dry" This is like something out of the Starzy handbook.

 

I must have been unconscious for the last 40 + years - is this a warmer version of Stalin's Russia?? or the enlightened democracy that in my misguided deluded fantasy I have voluntarily decided to live in????

 

 

[facthunter]

If you want to create a Tyrant get an ordinary guy and give him a uniform with "Boss Man" on it . And there you have it. Nev

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

You guys are scaring the crap out of me - is this a totalitarian society or what?.... I must have been unconscious for the last 40 + years - is this a warmer version of Stalin's Russia?? or the enlightened democracy that in my misguided deluded fantasy I have voluntarily decided to live in????

Yes, welcome to the new Left-stralia. Even Chinese people I know laugh at the number of laws we have.

 

With the proles like the refueler that ask for your ASIC ask them to firstly show their ID - both ASIC and drivers licence - and photograph them with your phone.