ASIC Rip off pilots

[Jerry_Atrick]

A couple of weeks ago, I had the fortune to make a quick visit to Melb, albeit in less than fortunate circumstances. Though about packing both the Aus and EASA PPL docs and then thought "stuff it... not worth the hassle". Result - no flying school got my revenue (what should have been a check flight and then a rental for about 5 hours I would have guessed - YMMB - YTOC - YBLT - YMMB was the thought).

 

Ended up taking my bruv out for lunch instead - fraction of the price and my £ came home with me

 

 

[Downunder]

My experience is the councils/airport owners are the ones pushing the asic.

 

Most of these airports are RPT.

 

Not sure if they really think it is a true safety measure or think if something does happen they can cover their ass.....

 

Probably the latter....

 

They probably think deterring ga/rec aircraft is a bonus.....

 

I wonder how much influence the airlines themselves have over making airports take on asic requirements? Something not really considered in this thread.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

My experience is the councils/airport owners are the ones pushing the asic. I would doubt they are "pushing it" as such but we live in an era where many people, particularly public servants of all descriptions, follow the dictum of risk minimisation, part of which is not questioning a directive from above

 

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Not sure if they really think it is a true safety measure or think if something does happen they can cover their ass..... See my previous comment.

 

...................................................

 

They probably think deterring ga/rec aircraft is a bonus.....

 

I doubt it . Most rural communities are strapped for cash, any chance of spending in their community is usually welcomed with enthusiasm.

 

I wonder how much influence the airlines themselves have over making airports take on asic requirements? Something not really considered in this thread.

I dont know as such but when it comes to minor RTP airfields, I would doubt they have much to do with it. As long as the public do not come near the aircraft (except to embark/ disembark), baggage handling and fueling operations, the airlines are happy. Lets face it this has been the norm since at least the early/mid 1950's (possibly earlier still, before my time).

 

 

 

Security around RPT aircraft has been good for a very long time. The public and passengers are quarantined from the airside operations and to the best of my knowledge no unaccounted for baggage or freight is ever loaded. In general RPT aircraft do not "park" in/on small rural airfields for any significant length of time (usually returning to their "Hub" airfield overnight), so again there is very little opportunity to meddle with them.

 

 

 

It makes sense to ASICify all those DIRECTLY involved with the aircraft its loading, fueling, servicing, flight crew and booking staff, etc etc.. Got no problem with this.

 

 

 

BUT!! for small rural airfields how does an ASIC wearing sport pilot enhance security ?? or for that matter, a non ASIC wearing pilot impact negatively on security ???

 

 

[Downunder]

I dont know as such but when it comes to minor RTP airfields, I would doubt they have much to do with it. As long as the public do not come near the aircraft (except to embark/ disembark), baggage handling and fueling operations, the airlines are happy. Lets face it this has been the norm since at least the early/mid 1950's (possibly earlier still, before my time). 

 

Security around RPT aircraft has been good for a very long time. The public and passengers are quarantined from the airside operations and to the best of my knowledge no unaccounted for baggage or freight is ever loaded. In general RPT aircraft do not "park" in/on small rural airfields for any significant length of time (usually returning to their "Hub" airfield overnight), so again there is very little opportunity to meddle with them.

 

It makes sense to ASICify all those DIRECTLY involved with the aircraft its loading, fueling, servicing, flight crew and booking staff, etc etc.. Got no problem with this.

 

 

 

BUT!! for small rural airfields how does an ASIC wearing sport pilot enhance security ?? or for that matter, a non ASIC wearing pilot impact negatively on security ???

I agree 100% .

 

But it would be a managment decision, not from a practical, common sense perspective like you have written.

 

These days it's ALL about public perception, ass covering and liability.

 

The people that make these decisions don't even venture to airfields.

 

They sit in offices, look at computer screens and have meetings.

 

When a real decision has to be made, they hire a consultant. The consultant ( to justify their excessive fees) says " yeah, you better have ASIC's". Then bob's your uncle....we have ASIC's.

 

 

[alf jessup]

I think just get rid of the asic and just build huge arxe bollards around cities to protect the buildings from air attacks

 

Seems to be working (not) in Melbourne on the streets as we have seen once again today (December 21 2017)

 

Be prepared people for bollards in every footpath in the country and around ever airport

 

Some dumb arxe Polly will probably suggest it

 

Seem like a good idea????

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

@alf jessup - it's a very poignant point.. Though, I personally am not in favour of using such public atrocities to further my agenda, but it (and the Bourke Street event) highlight what we have been saying all along - far easier, cheaper and more effective to use road vehicles to carry out these atrocities than aircraft. And, it highlights anyone can get a road vehicle (does one even need to provide a license to buy a cheap banger?). Of course, those same dumb arxe pollies may say, "Hey - notice how they haven't used aircraft - it's because of the ASIC and long may it remain in existence".

[Jaba-who]

My experience is the councils/airport owners are the ones pushing the asic.Most of these airports are RPT.

Not sure if they really think it is a true safety measure or think if something does happen they can cover their ass.....

 

Probably the latter....

 

They probably think deterring ga/rec aircraft is a bonus.....

 

I wonder how much influence the airlines themselves have over making airports take on asic requirements? Something not really considered in this thread.

I'm not so sure. I think it's a complete top to bottom pressure phenomenon.

 

Government says you have to have it, and every level below that enters into A_ _ _ covering mode and also insist you have to have it because that's the rules.

 

But yep. We notice it more in the little guy at the bottom of the chain because we are in contact with them.

 

And as correctly said earlier give a little guy a uniform and a badge and he becomes a little Hitler ( because he wants to cover his butt and because the rules say he can).

 

I see similar stuff in the health beaurocracy all the time. People with actually very little power in the grand system see themselves as big fish in their little pond but also aware they can be hooked at anytime by someone from up the chain so enforce the rules to the nth degree.

 

 

[Yenn]

What power does the little Hitler have? If you comply with the law and show your ASIC there is nothing he can do. If you don’t show it he can either ask you to show, or report you to someone with authority. He cannot detain you, or physically do anything to you, unless he wants to be done for assault.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

What power does the little Hitler have? If you comply with the law and show your ASIC there is nothing he can do. If you don’t show it he can either ask you to show, or report you to someone with authority. He cannot detain you, or physically do anything to you, unless he wants to be done for assault.

There's lots of control measures short f that they can do.

Some of the experiences I have previously commented on:

 

Local guy with a low level grey asic card refuses to allow to two pilots both with red ASICs to access their aircraft. You are outside the gates and He will not give the gate code to you and insists you remain where you are till he comes and escorts you to your aircraft.

 

A security guy on the end of the phone refuses to give you the gate code ( in this case to get OUT of the airport after landed and already in the secure area despite advising him you have asic card and advising him you just want to get out to catch a taxi to your hotel. He insists on you waiting there till he arrives to let you out.

 

Another security guy insists that a group of 16 pilots ( all with ASIC cards ) each and every pilot show their asic card ( via a camera at the gate and the numbers be recorded. ) This despite us saying to him that the law says only one must have a card and that one person can escort all the others anyway even if not one of them had a card. "No! I have to record a pilots card details and you are all pilots with cards so I am going do every one of you. " Nearly an hour later he opened the gate.

 

 

[coljones]

What power does the little Hitler have? If you comply with the law and show your ASIC there is nothing he can do. If you don’t show it he can either ask you to show, or report you to someone with authority. He cannot detain you, or physically do anything to you, unless he wants to be done for assault.

But he can turn up every 5 minutes demanding proof of compliance to every petty demand together with the attendant threats. Police and other enforcement officers have been known to issue fines just for the hell of it.

 

 

[facthunter]

Don't get ME started. When this system started some notable in the CASA said you can not take a plane into the air in Australian airspace without one. After about 3 days the correction was made to THAT particular misconception . The way I see it 1/2 the problem is the "plan" is left up to the designated committee or person at each locality to devise THE plan for THAT aerodrome, so you get a great variability. As far as I know you can arrange for a card holder to meet and escort you. The last time I had one it was marked ACCESS ALL AREAS.. That's a fairly unusual one. Most are more specific and restricted applicability. It's expensive, ineffective and has delays in issuing it. Not a reason to live in another country but perhaps with time we will get there. Nev

 

 

[alf jessup]

@alf jessup - it's a very poignant point.. Though, I personally am not in favour of using such public atrocities to further my agenda, but it (and the Bourke Street event) highlight what we have been saying all along - far easier, cheaper and more effective to use road vehicles to carry out these atrocities than aircraft. And, it highlights anyone can get a road vehicle (does one even need to provide a license to buy a cheap banger?). Of course, those same dumb arxe pollies may say, "Hey - notice how they haven't used aircraft - it's because of the ASIC and long may it remain in existence".

Very true Jerry_Atrick

Much easier to use a vehicle than a plane these days as commercial airliners have now much stringent controls stopping unauthorised access in to cockpits

That’s the problem with the DA Pollies thinking they have stopped aircraft attacks

The reinforced door stops them these days

Look out we will all be applying shortly for a MVSIC

The mind just boggles to how many sleepers of this cult they belong to have infiltrated in to this great once country of ours