Multicom

[Yenn]

What was ambiguous about CASA rules concerning airstrips which are not on the charts?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

What was ambiguous about CASA rules concerning airstrips which are not on the charts?

There were/are a number of localities where the situation makes for specific problems. Some that affected me personally.

 

1. Busy country town strips not on maps but busy enough that lots of people assumed they were.

 

2. Busy Strips that were on some maps but not on others. One was On the VTC of nearby international airport but not on WAC or VNC .

 

3. Strips just outside of the CTAFs that were marked.

 

And where specifically - the CTAF was very busy ( including a training establishment) AND the area freq is the frequency of a busy international airport whose ATC has no interest in you calling on their busy frequency.

 

 

[kaz3g]

There were/are a number of localities where the situation makes for specific problems. Some that affected me personally.1. Busy country town strips not on maps but busy enough that lots of people assumed they were.

2. Busy Strips that were on some maps but not on others. One was On the VTC of nearby international airport but not on WAC or VNC .

 

3. Strips just outside of the CTAFs that were marked.

 

And where specifically - the CTAF was very busy ( including a training establishment) AND the area freq is the frequency of a busy international airport whose ATC has no interest in you calling on their busy frequency.

1. Then safety considerations ought demand those country town strips be marked...fixed.

 

2. Use the appropriate chart for your location as per the rules...fixed

 

3. Follow the rules and use the allocated frequency or Multicom where relevant for marked strips...fixed

 

(4) Use the CTAF frequency as per the rules...why would you call on Area?

 

And while you are waiting for RAAus, the RAPACs and Dick Smith to create the ultimate confusion by changing everything again,purchase a subscription to the AOPA Country Airport Guide with OzRunways and you will know where most of those unmarked strips are located.

 

Kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

......from my side I’m just trying not to fly a passenger aircraft into another in IMC :). Spend a bit of time at the ‘busy’ FNQ CTAF on a bad WX day and you’ll see what I mean.

Then you clearly won't have problems with VFR traffic and you will be talking to Area/Radar or on the CTAF...or both.

 

Kaz

 

 

[ben87r]

Then you clearly won't have problems with VFR traffic and you will be talking to Area/Radar or on the CTAF...or both.Kaz

All very true but that will be OCTA and with only traffic advice, not separation.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

1. Then safety considerations ought demand those country town strips be marked...fixed.2. Use the appropriate chart for your location as per the rules...fixed

3. Follow the rules and use the allocated frequency or Multicom where relevant for marked strips...fixed

 

(4) Use the CTAF frequency as per the rules...why would you call on Area?

 

And while you are waiting for RAAus, the RAPACs and Dick Smith to create the ultimate confusion by changing everything again,purchase a subscription to the AOPA Country Airport Guide with OzRunways and you will know where most of those unmarked strips are located.

 

Kaz

I didn’t say I didn’t follow the rules. I said they were situations which cause problems. And not because people necessarily don’t want to follow rules ( although yep I agree aviation seems to attract anti authoritarian types)

But for every easy solution there’s a complex reason why the simple solution doesn’t work.

 

1. Yep. That’s been fixed now for two of the three airfields I’m thinking of. And I’m thinking that if three problems like this exist in my patch of sky they must exist by the many in the rest of Oz) . - after about 10 years and countless representations. Maps finally fixed ( by individuals and RAPAC ) but not before they caused the problems.

 

2. There were actually 3 airfields that were not marked. One problem airfield is inside the vtc and two are not. The one inside the vtc was in a unique position. Inside the vtc but west of a mountain range which made it completely outside the practical area of the airport around whom the vtc was centered. Traffic passing around and unrelated to the big airport would often use the vnc or Wac because they were outside then inside then outside the vtc and have no actual need of the vtc because they were not going into the international airport. And to make matters even more complex - the area frequency was in multiple places terrain shielded from the ATC operating at the big airport.

 

3. You used area because that’s what the rules said you must - even though all around you were CTAF areas that you were likely to have traffic who would impact in you but were on the ctaf while you were on the area.

 

This last scenario is the one which is the most common and the one which RAPAC have multiple comments about in their submissions. I think this is the one which probably occurs most commonly. The rule means that aircraft in close enough proximity are forced to be in different frequencies. Casa attempting yet again to enforce a “one size fits all “ policy.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I think a number of these unmarked airstrips should be marked if they have regular traffic and, if they don't, concerns about them are really a bit of a furphy, aren't they? After all, they are OK for "no radio" operations...See and avoid...

Excellent points, Kaz. Much more needs to be spent on keeping our charts up to date; it took me several years of emails, letters and phone calls until one mistake was finally corrected. I know of several marked airfields which have long since been farmed into oblivion; any pilot trying to use them in an emergency is in for a rude shock.

 

 

[Garfly]

Yes, OzRunways makes reference to this problem of the Airservices database being of dubious quality:

 

Incorrect airfield/HLA/ALA location / Frequently Asked Questions / Knowledge Base - OzRunways Support

 

But this announcement by them, made last month, seems to offer an improved non-governmental solution:

 

 

 

[Garfly]

Talking about imperfect airport databases, CUDAL airport in NSW - a 1300 metre east-west paved runway, once the HQ of Hazleton Airlines - still shows up on the Airservices database in OzRunways though, sadly, it's now permanently closed. It's been banished from ERSA.

 

It's better that it shows up on the EFB, rather than not, I suppose, for possible emergency use. But maybe disused runways could have a special colour.

 

I don't see any X marked on the runway in the latest GE imagery.

 

And there's still a Public Note in OZRWYs dated 2013 mentioning that 27 has right hand circuits.

 

And there was some mention on PPrune - albeit nine years ago - about it being landable with prior permission.

 

Cudal Airport - PPRuNe Forums

 

Anyone know any more recent news about this place?