Blackshape Prime on Sunrise

[APenNameAndThatA]

[ATTACH]38373.IPB[/ATTACH]Bexrbetter, sure will. 

 

see attached the price list for the prime. you will see the full calculation of the price. We get 20% of the cost price as our agents fee. so on a 300,000 aircraft, we get $60,000. 2-3 aircraft a year (which is what is expected) and you will see the project does not make money when you include hangar cost (32,000 per year), insurance ($15,000 per aircraft). labour, advertising blah blah. 

So, how have the sales been going? 

 

 

[Nic Waugh]

No new aircraft sales yet. We have sold one of the demo units to make room for the Gabrielle. Make room in our cheque book that is. plenty of space in our hangar. 

 

 

[Hongie]

what a bunch of whingers we are in Australia. Tall poppy syndrome is in full effect. Heaven forbid someone works within the rules and guidelines and tries to make some money. Instead of talking about how this aircraft is all too expensive and a load of <mod censored> (someone said it earlier in the thread, not verbatim, that was the gist though) we should be celebrating the fact that we are able to have access to such aircraft under the RaAus umbrella. FFS. I go on a couple of other non-australian aviation forums, and yes, there are arguments and disagreements, but they are the exception, not the rule. Its trip reports, discussions on the merits of this brand of engine vs that, construction logs.

 

All us aussie's ever seem to do is want things to "go back to the way they were", whilst we look down from 5000ft, with our ipad on our lap, with an engine that doesnt require a rebuild every 300 hours, whilst still fighting against any progress that we are not going to directly use.

 

Proposal. If you are against the advancements, dont use any. If you still want to live in 70's or 80's, off ya go. not above 300ft (or whatever it was), no GPS!! no ipad. No spot trackers. No electronic trickery-buggery.

 

My point is, there are some amongst us who are happy to take the little bits i've mentioned above (ipads and the like) and embrace them for their actual and/or perceived safety benefits, but anyone who takes such technology to the next (and the next, ad nauseum) step, draws their ire and resentment. I'm sure it will be the same till the end of time. "It wasnt like this in my day" well, of course it bloody wasn't! Technology changes, things advance!

 

rant over. I'm going flying, with my ipad and my Dynon

 

Mate, good luck with the franchise/dealership

 

 

[Nic Waugh]

Thanks for the comments Hongie. I would clearly agree. I have said recently to RA Aus that there will be no recreational aircraft manufacturer looking to make their next aircraft slower or with less technology. This is the way things are going to be. 

 

I am new to social media (47 year old social media virgin with just linkedin) and its looked after by our marketing lady Zulay. but when I do see comments on our facebook and Instagram (and just found your forum last night) I am amazed by how blunt people are. Nasty even. Its not cricket. All we did was buy import, fly and try and sell something new.  If I'd written something or said something offensive, I'd understand. But I'm thick skinned and as long as your group lets me defend myself (which you are), its all good.

 

$300,000 for an aircraft is expensive for some, but not all. I'm an instrument tech and I bought one to get me to site and home faster. It was pretty simple maths for me to work out the time I spend going to large centres and then out to the remote places where I work. We have had about 25 solid enquiries and every one of them, bar the Qantas /Cathay pilots who just want one for a bit of fun, have the same or similar application for the aircraft to me. A sales guy from country NSW radio. A farmer who has two properties 900km apart.   I'm not expecting to see any sold at the flight schools or running friends around the bay on Sundays. 

 

Have a great flight. more power to your right arm. 

 

 

[SSCBD]

Thanks for the comments Hongie. I would clearly agree. I have said recently to RA Aus that there will be no recreational aircraft manufacturer looking to make their next aircraft slower or with less technology. This is the way things are going to be. I am new to social media (47 year old social media virgin with just linkedin) and its looked after by our marketing lady Zulay. but when I do see comments on our facebook and Instagram (and just found your forum last night) I am amazed by how blunt people are. Nasty even. Its not cricket. All we did was buy import, fly and try and sell something new.  If I'd written something or said something offensive, I'd understand. But I'm thick skinned and as long as your group lets me defend myself (which you are), its all good.

 

$300,000 for an aircraft is expensive for some, but not all. I'm an instrument tech and I bought one to get me to site and home faster. It was pretty simple maths for me to work out the time I spend going to large centres and then out to the remote places where I work. We have had about 25 solid enquiries and every one of them, bar the Qantas /Cathay pilots who just want one for a bit of fun, have the same or similar application for the aircraft to me. A sales guy from country NSW radio. A farmer who has two properties 900km apart.   I'm not expecting to see any sold at the flight schools or running friends around the bay on Sundays. 

 

Have a great flight. more power to your right arm. 

Hi Nick - I hope you were not offended by "my post" here asking cost of the aircraft.

I for one like the fast beast,  - and I also like the other end of our roots of rec flying, like rag wing slow drifter types.  I think the problem here with the forum is the one size fits all tastes, which has not worked for some guys wanting different things in flying - slow and low - medium cruise with stol  - high speed point - then CTA - or no CTA  etc.  All basically under the same rules which do not fit. I fly many RAA aircraft slow rag wing and fast carbon coffee machines including GA. 

 

BUT 

 

Best example is the training side and operations when you have people on limited cash flying say drifters for their hobby,  then you have your type of clients which require a higher (more expensive training level or require more hours to get up to speed in your beast at the top end of the market. 

 

I love the idea of your machine in Rec flying. 

 

As soon as I win lotto I will give you a call. 

 

 

[Markproa]

Great comments Hongi and good on you Nic for answering the whingers with transparent facts. I tend to not use this forum for the reasons Hongi points out, way too much uninformed cynicism for my liking. Which is a shame because most overseas forums are not like that and it would be good to have a decent Australian forum discussing local issues with a similar level of intelligence. I suspect there is a silent majority who agree and it's the loud few who do all the talking, a bit like drunks in a pub. I've read some good useful stuff on this forum but it often degenerates into uninteresting personal opinion. I can go down the RSL to hear that. 

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Yeah, I know a guy who could lose his Class 2 and if he does he'll buy an LSA for commuting to his farm instead of the GA aircraft he has. I many cases the choice will be between a GA aircraft like Cirrus SR22 ($ one million or so), Diamondstar DA40 (a little less) and a Blackshape doesn't look bad compared to those if your mission requirement is only 2 people max.

 

Surely, people, there is room for all tastes and flying machines in the broad church of aviation.

 

Price a modern competition sailplane. One without an engine will set you back a fair bit more than $200,000. Add a get you home engine and you can add another $40k. And that is for just a toy.

 

You can buy a used glass glider say 3 to 4 decades old for $10,000 or so and if you want to compete there is a class for you all the way up to World Champion level. Might cost $20,000 or so by the time you re-equip with modern instruments. Not so much money nowadays.

 

 

[Markproa]

Or, if you have a few thousand hours spare you can always build your own out of wood.

 

 

 

[Kenlsa]

Good on you Nic, there sure are some crusty anti everything posters on this forum.

 

Ken

 

 

[bexrbetter]

what a bunch of whingers we are in Australia. Tall poppy syndrome is in full effect.

Nah, it's a $300,000 aircraft mate. When you throw that in the face of a demographic of people who don't have $3000 in their bank account, then you will ellicit a reaction usually in line with 'what's the point?' when something is clearly unreachable for them, it's human nature.

 

No one is against the aircraft, no one is against Nic running a business as required, it's just a demographic thing.

 

I've read some good useful stuff on this forum but it often degenerates into uninteresting personal opinion.There is now an outrageously expensive Lycoming version called the Blackshape Gabriel

I would consider your opinion on the Gabriel to be no different to other's opinions here on the Prime..

 

with the added inherent balance problems of a tandem

 I can go down the RSL to hear that. 

"tandems" are actually the easiest to balance, relative to all other 2 place craft, you just plonk your Pax and baggage on the CoG.

 

I suggest the roast beef and spuds.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

 I have said recently to RA Aus that there will be no recreational aircraft manufacturer looking to make their next aircraft slower or with less technology.

 

 

That's simply not true, and I certainly hope not Nic, as it would be the destruction of recreational flying.

 

Others and myself are attempting solutions.

 

 

[Nic Waugh]

bexrbetter, you are absolutely right. I was far too loose with my words. The point I was ineptly trying to make was that there will be more and more aircraft like the prime coming onto the market.  That as each new model is released, it will be better and faster and have more options than the model it replaces. But I do hope that there are more lower priced, be that slower, be that less optioned NEW aircraft types coming into the sector. Hope that clarifies my comments and thank you for calling me on it. I'm new, I'm trying and I will make mistakes and put my hand up when I do. 

 

 

[bexrbetter]

But I do hope that there are more lower priced, be that slower, be that less optioned NEW aircraft types coming into the sector.

 

 

There is a need for both. Your hope is well placed because the cheaper variants and kits draw participants to the hobby who then go on to desiring craft such as yours.

 

I'm new,

You're doing fine. Plenty before you have come in with a 'superior product' arrogance, yet you have been straight up and down. Hope you stick around.

 

 

[Yenn]

I haven't really looked at the Blackshape Prime as it is way out of my price range and also not what I require.

 

It must be hard to be a dealer for this type of plane because the sales volume is so small that the price has to be upped to make it viable. One of the members who frequents this forum was dealer for a very nice plane, fast, looked good, nice aeroplane, but I don't know if he ever sold one and no doubt he bought the one he flew as a demo plane. Good luck to anyone who is trying to increase the number of flyers.

 

It is not necessarily better to be faster and in some ways, slower is best. The low slow Savannah or Drifter pilot will see far more on the journey, than i will in my faster Corby or RV4 and in some cases could even be faster point to point, by not having to stop to refuel. On a trip of about 120 miles I gave a Savannah a start of the time it took to preflight the Corby. We arrived at the destination at the same time and I think the speed difference is between 15 and 20kts.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

I haven't really looked at the Blackshape Prime as it is way out of my price range and also not what I require.It must be hard to be a dealer for this type of plane because the sales volume is so small that the price has to be upped to make it viable. One of the members who frequents this forum was dealer for a very nice plane, fast, looked good, nice aeroplane, but I don't know if he ever sold one and no doubt he bought the one he flew as a demo plane. Good luck to anyone who is trying to increase the number of flyers.

 

It is not necessarily better to be faster and in some ways, slower is best. The low slow Savannah or Drifter pilot will see far more on the journey, than i will in my faster Corby or RV4 and in some cases could even be faster point to point, by not having to stop to refuel. On a trip of about 120 miles I gave a Savannah a start of the time it took to preflight the Corby. We arrived at the destination at the same time and I think the speed difference is between 15 and 20kts.

Well, the Blackshape Prime is hardly any faster than a C182, an aircraft that murders it on practicality. Because of the range, the C182 would be much faster on a long trip. And, if you no longer have your GA medical (something that will happen to me one day) then you should probably be in a slower plane.