Learn to fly in your own built kit plane.

[adrian222]

G'day People.

 

Been trying to find info on being taught to fly in the kit plane that you have built.I am looking at buying a kit plane next year and was wondering if I can get my licence with this plane which seems to be a logical thing to do.

 

Which means I save money not hiring a plane and get to know the plane that I own.

 

Is this possible,I know you have to find a instructor willing to do this.

 

Just putting it out there.

 

Adrian.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

You need to train with someone first and get to solo...because you need to fly off 25hrs in a new built aircraft with only 1 POB. Unless you are paying someone to do that best to go solo first at a school then do the 25 hrs in you own aircraft THEN do all your cross country training in your own aircraft with a instructor...this is what I did when I built mine

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

This way you are familiar with your own aircraft and when they throw all the funky stuff at you when doing cross country training you dont have to worry about the aircraft as you are very used to it

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The guy that runs rotec was complaining about CASA making him do 40 hours when the RAA said he only needed 25 on his new rotec powered kitfox

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well maybe thats why..it ends with a ec instead of a ax :)

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

When I was near the end of building my Jabiru, I got my certificate on one belonging to the club and I would do that again. It meant that I was current in the plane I had built and there were no surprises in store.

 

This is in contrast to a guy at the club who transitioned himself from a draggy rag-wing thing to a sleek glass thing. The guy who watched his first flight thought he was going to die.

 

Anyway, I sure agree with training on type even if you can't find an instructor to do it in the actual plane.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I trained on a Savannah XL...I also built a Savannah XL I agree train in something that is the same or very similar for sure

 

 

[SDQDI]

It is possible.

 

As for the first 25hour thingy, I think if you have just built the plane and if you have no other flying experience it would be wise to get someone with more experience to fly those 25hours off anyway. After that what better experience would there be than learning to fly in the plane you built yourself!

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

As a low time pilot on RAA I got my instructor to test fly my Sav for the first flight ...he landed gave me the thumbs up saying its perfect and I then took off. Once you know it has no vices then this makes life very different. Still nervous the first few hours of course but after 25 hrs then much more confident. The big pain is only being able to fly 25nm away....25 hrs seems a long time when you have such a small area to fly

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Are you not supposed to fly a series of flights to document performance throughout the flight envelope as part of your 25 hrs? Probably not the best idea for a student pilot who has just gone solo. I also thought the pilot flying off the hours had to be named and authorised in the documentation. Would RAAus authorise a student pilot for this?

 

 

[Downunder]

G'day People.Been trying to find info on being taught to fly in the kit plane that you have built.I am looking at buying a kit plane next year and was wondering if I can get my licence with this plane which seems to be a logical thing to do.

 

Which means I save money not hiring a plane and get to know the plane that I own.

 

Is this possible,I know you have to find a instructor willing to do this.

 

Just putting it out there.Adrian.

Best you could probably hope for, after reading comments, is to buy a built and flown kit.

 

Then get an instructor to teach you in it.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I wouldn't build if I lived out at Gurley, the cost of freighting everything out there will be a significant expense

 

 

[Jaba-who]

The guy that runs rotec was complaining about CASA making him do 40 hours when the RAA said he only needed 25 on his new rotec powered kitfox

Not sure if the same thing applies to RAAus certificate of airworthiness but in GA experimental aircraft the Authorised person can say you must do either 25 hours or more (typically 40 hours. )

 

If the aircraft is a proven design, kit etc built exactly to specs according to the kit manufacturer etc then typically you will only need 25 hours.

 

If on the other hand anything at all is not standard, or the aircraft is made from plans and self sourced materials or contains mods etc then you get the 40 hour phase 1 trial requirement.

 

An engine not approved or explicitly tested by the kit manufacturer would count as a major deviation from standard. did the RAAus advice source know it was a Rotec not a Rotax?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

sorry I got that slightly wrong, its a VH Experimental reg kitfox but the RAA tech manager originally signed off on a 25 hour flight program but CASA bumped it up to 40 hours. You would think that the Rotec engine and the kitfox airframe built by a guy who builds aircraft engine for a living would qualify.

 

 

[rankamateur]

I wouldn't build if I lived out at Gurley, the cost of freighting everything out there will be a significant expense

I don't live far from Gurley and I hired a car trailer and picked my kit up in Brisbane. No huge cost involved. A bigger pain and cost will be getting an L4 out to inspect the finished product before it can be registered.

 

 

[Geoff13]

sorry I got that slightly wrong, its a VH Experimental reg kitfox but the RAA tech manager originally signed off on a 25 hour flight program but CASA bumped it up to 40 hours. You would think that the Rotec engine and the kitfox airframe built by a guy who builds aircraft engine for a living would qualify.

Why would the RAA tech Manager be signing off on a VH Experimental, he would have no authority to do so in his capacity as RAA tech manager.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

because he's a qualified person

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Are you not supposed to fly a series of flights to document performance throughout the flight envelope as part of your 25 hrs? Probably not the best idea for a student pilot who has just gone solo. I also thought the pilot flying off the hours had to be named and authorised in the documentation. Would RAAus authorise a student pilot for this?

That is for GA and SAA aircraft

 

If in RAA and you build a recognised kit like a Savannah or a Rans etc there is not that requirement. Anything you design and intend to fly then thats a whole different matter

 

 

[Happyflyer]

That is for GA and SAA aircraftIf in RAA and you build a recognised kit like a Savannah or a Rans etc there is not that requirement. Anything you design and intend to fly then thats a whole different matter

Even so, I can't see a student pilot being authorised to do the test flight hours and I can't see an instructor authorising the solo times aircraft that had not done its test hours.

 

 

[ruffasguts]

That is for GA and SAA aircraftIf in RAA and you build a recognised kit like a Savannah or a Rans etc there is not that requirement. Anything you design and intend to fly then thats a whole different matter

Incorrect all aircraft are required to fly off a test schedule check tech manual section 3

 

Mick W

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well actually the latest Tech manual version 4 is different to the one that I originally built and flew under.

 

I have just been through it all to confirm and provided you do all of the inspections and do the logs when its ready to fly you need the Form 031 Application for Permit to Fly - Test Flying

 

This form has nothing on it for any test proceedures at all and there is no form at all stating any proceedures. The only requirement for say "test" values is is on Form 008 where you need to demonstrate the stall speed at a all up flying weight

 

So the only process that has changed is all the inspection regeim when it is being built

 

 

[Yenn]

Disregarding the test flying, it would be possible for anyone to build a plane. Get the test flying done by an acceptable person and then if an instructor was happy to fly it he could teach the builder in that plane.

 

You still get to build your plane and you get instructed in it, but someone else does the test flying.

 

I don't know how many builders do all the test flying, but I know some get an experienced pilot to do the first flight for them.

 

 

[dlegg]

Don't you have to have a minimum 100 hrs as a pilot before you can do the 25 hr test period of the new aircraft?

 

 

[poteroo]

Don't you have to have a minimum 100 hrs as a pilot before you can do the 25 hr test period of the new aircraft?

Test flying any aircraft is quite demanding if done thoroughly. To complete the full, (recommended), test flying of a GA Experimental kit build aircraft, does take pretty much all of the 25 hrs allocated. Trying to do it within 25 nm of your base is a bit restrictive - 50nm gives you more room for manoeuvring. For any pilot with less than 200 hrs TT, and perhaps 30-40 hrs on a very similar type, to try the test flying work: would be foolhardy in the extreme. I've not done any RAAus test work, but if all it involves is stall testing then, (IMHO), the aircraft has not really been 'test flown' sufficient for any instruction to be given in it after the 25hrs. I'd be a bit wary of it, and certainly would be very cautious beginning the owners ab initio instruction. That's not to say that 24 registered aircraft are given particularly extensive test flying by the factory before they change hands. However, factory 'test' pilots know what the type does and feels, being very much more aware of any flight outside what is normal for the type. happy days,

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Now that we have diverged off onto all sorts of tangents I am still unsure of the details of the original question.

 

Adrian222 seems to have gone to ground and without more detail this question remains a complex whorl of uncertainty.

 

I still would like to know:

 

Is this aircraft already built or is it proposed to be built?

 

If it's already built has it been given a certificate of airworthiness or is that still to come?

 

Is it RAAus or GA experimental?