Learn to fly in your own built kit plane.

[Jaba-who]

sorry I got that slightly wrong, its a VH Experimental reg kitfox but the RAA tech manager originally signed off on a 25 hour flight program but CASA bumped it up to 40 hours. You would think that the Rotec engine and the kitfox airframe built by a guy who builds aircraft engine for a living would qualify.

That's not what CASA go on. It's not who does it it's what they do.

 

All those kits have a set of parameters that were in the build and flight schedule when they get approved as kits. If you build it with everything matching the schedule then its likely to get a 25 hour phase 1 test schedule. If the build does not match the manufacturers approved schedule then it becomes an un"certified " ( for want of a better term) kit. Regardless of who put it together CASA will want it to go through longer test phase to prove the mods are safe. An engine builder may be great about building an engine but have limited knowledge about the effects the engine will have on a specific airframe - resonance issues, weights and balance issues, probably plenty of other interaction issues.

 

 

[adrian222]

No I have not gone to ground I am confused with so many different answers.

 

Here is what I was thinking on doing I am planning to buy a just aircraft kit plane.The distributor is not far from where I live.

 

Just Aircraft Australia

 

I have not approached the distributor yet as I am just trying to work out a plan to save money and learn to fly in the plane that I have built. Things are in the early stages yet all I was trying to find out is can I be taught how to fly in a kit plane that I intend on building so far it has been clear as mud (lol).

 

Just thought it would be a logical thing to do.

 

Adrian.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well we all could be wrong..the new Tech manual seems there are a lot of interperations of it. The best way is Get hold of Darren barnfield or Jared at Tech at RAA and ask them...they wrote the bible so they should know for sure....then come back and let all of us pontificators know please

 

 

[SDQDI]

No I have not gone to ground I am confused with so many different answers.Here is what I was thinking on doing I am planning to buy a just aircraft kit plane.The distributor is not far from where I live.

Just Aircraft Australia

 

I have not approached the distributor yet as I am just trying to work out a plan to save money and learn to fly in the plane that I have built. Things are in the early stages yet all I was trying to find out is can I be taught how to fly in a kit plane that I intend on building so far it has been clear as mud (lol).

 

Just thought it would be a logical thing to do.

 

Adrian.

I think you will find it is only the first hours on the plane that are the issue Adrian, seeing as you are looking at the just aircraft kits I would reccomend a phone call to Brett would clear that bit up. I think he has flown off the first 25 hours before but that would need to be confirmed. Then if you were keen to learn in it it is only a matter of finding a willing instructor (which I don't think would be hard)

 

Of course the other option would be to do your initial training in something else and then transfer over to yours after that (I would still recommend trying to get Brett to fly off those first few hours!)

 

I would also think a trip down to visit Brett (and of course us other friendly locals!) would be well worth the expense of the fuel! Don't hesitate to pm me if you need anything down this way (for example if you bludged a flight down I could organise a car for you to use from YQDI.

 

 

[Downunder]

I think you will find it is only the first hours on the plane that are the issue Adrian, seeing as you are looking at the just aircraft kits I would reccomend a phone call to Brett would clear that bit up. I think he has flown off the first 25 hours before but that would need to be confirmed. Then if you were keen to learn in it it is only a matter of finding a willing instructor (which I don't think would be hard)Of course the other option would be to do your initial training in something else and then transfer over to yours after that (I would still recommend trying to get Brett to fly off those first few hours!)

Yes, it's obviously in the kit sellers interest to "help" a potential purchaser. Or you would think so....

 

 

[adrian222]

Thanks SDQDI

 

Nothing is set in concrete yet I just don't want to bother people until I can commit 100%.

 

Thats why I was asking here if anybody has done what I would like to do.But it looks like I will have to make a trip down to Quirindi and introduce my self.

 

Adrian.

 

 

[SDQDI]

Have you met Ken flower who instructs at Narrabri?

 

I did my first solo check flight with him when first learning to fly and since then I did a bfr with him in my 19 reg Hornet. I would think he would be worth a phone call as he may be happy to do your training in your superstol/highlander or in his aircraft if that is what you decide. He would have a local instructors opinion anyway.

 

 

[adrian222]

Yes Bob Smith who flies out of Mt Borah mentioned his name when I was attending the Mt Borah Slope fest.

 

 

[440032]

Assuming this is an RAAus case (we don't know yet) - has anyone read the Tech Manual? I found the answer in about 12 seconds, on page 2 of section 3.1.

 

Example.

 

Friend of mine built an RV12.

 

Test period all flown off by a qualified pilot.

 

Owner then did all his RAAus pilot certificate training in it, with a willing and able instructor.

 

VH experimental will be the same process, build it, test it, learn to fly in it. If you can find a willing and able instructor AND the Part 141 flying school has mentioned "privately owned aircraft" in 4B12 of their ops manual. (or more generically, "all single engined aircraft").

 

Go for it Adrian.

 

Case closed.

 

 

[facthunter]

VH exp is still VH. How can an RAAus rules pilot train in a VH of any kind? Nev

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Just to play devils advocate

 

There is a downside about building your own aircraft, getting it flying and then then learning to fly in it.

 

First you gotta build it.

 

The average time in Australia to build an aircraft ( GA experimental at least - as shown in a small report I read somewhere back when I built my Jab ) is 7 years. The same report as best I recall said that something like just under a half never get completed.

 

So there's a major consideration.

 

It's a long time and lots can change in your life in that time. Lots can happen which may cause your flying dream never to happen. Have you really considered whether buying an aircraft that's working here and now is an option. I've been through this soul searching myself and I had aircraft to hire etc while I was doing my build so it was not really an issue. But if you don't have an aircraft then the old saying of " the less you fly the less you want to fly" comes in. You may find that in ten years you have a half completed kit in your shed and no desire or capacity to complete it and then start the journey of getting your licence.

 

The cost of buying a kit plus build tools, workshop mods, paint and prep etc might be the same as buy a plane already done and do your licence in it.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

building these new matched hole kits is a lot easier than anything previously on the market

 

 

 

[Sav 4352]

Building a kit can be almost as enjoyable as flying and something you will be proud of when you finish. Don't be put off by the knockers, time taken to build depends on entirely on yourself. I opened the boxes containing my Savannah Kit in early February and was flying it by the end of August. Just remember to complete the paper work as you go along and have the inspections organized in advance.

 

 

[Yenn]

Have a look at my post No22.

 

I think you will find that it supplies your answer.

 

As for the time taken to build a plane being 7 years. I have built two in less time than that and neither were quick builds.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Have a look at my post No22.I think you will find that it supplies your answer.

As for the time taken to build a plane being 7 years. I have built two in less time than that and neither were quick builds.

The quoted time is the average.

I built mine in 13 months ( but in 1400 hrs of work - essentially full time). But I would believe the report on averages because I know of some who took more than 10 years, some who took 5 or 6. Also one ( an RV) that has not even been taken out the box in about 6 years. So for every quick build we have a slow build.

 

The point is that it’s important to consider time frames and other potential life events in the whole decision making process.

 

I’m not for a minute saying don’t do it, but rather go into it fully aware of how the whole thing may progress.

 

 

[ROGER.G]

Adrian, I have not trawled through all your other posts, so will probably repeat advice from others. But I did exactly what you are proposing, except I did not fully comprehend the ramifications! I purchased my Jabiru kit, constructed it over about two years and then expected someone to do a test flight and the train me in it straight away. Not quite so simple! Fortunately I found a Jab builder who agreed to complete the 25 hour test schedule, some of which with me in the right seat (to take notes, which was very handy, occasionally I was able to take the controls while he took notes), and then it is a matter of finding a willing instructor. The LAME who signed issued my C of A endorsed it for training, but for me only. This was not a huge problem, but the words "homebuilt" or "experimental" tend to send a shiver down the spine of some trainers, especially GA (which is the way I went).

 

Nevertheless, I would do it again, just make sure you can find someone who is willing to complete the initial 25 hours for you and hope all goes well.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

So for GA you can have another person in the aircraft during the testing?

 

 

[ROGER.G]

Yes, to "take notes and assist with documentation". This was 15 years ago, but I suspect the situation is still the same today.

 

 

[Yenn]

You can have another person with you when doing test flying, but that person must be essential. I don' think it woukd be essential for a Jab to need 2 in the cockpit.

 

When I have been doing test flying I would have appreciated someone with me to do the recording, but it would have been illegal. I t would have been great to have a person rather than ballast, when I was checking how the C of G changes affacted the flying characteristics.

 

 

[Love to fly]

Yes, to "take notes and assist with documentation". This was 15 years ago, but I suspect the situation is still the same today.

We were specifically told no second person for test flying when we gained the CofA in May. The CofA was specific as to who the test pilots were, and that only one person on board during the testing phase.

 

 

[ROGER.G]

Obviously a bit of a grey area. A situation where you could probably get away with it, as long as nothing serious happens and I guess it is up to the test pilot and his confidence in the aircraft. In my case, I was not required to 'take notes' until the aircraft had logged a few uneventful hours!

 

 

[Jaba-who]

In GA experimental - It's basically not as grey as you'd think. The default position is You can't have a second person.

 

But if you are to be able to demonstrate to the authorised person that the second person is required The AP then may approve that the second person is able to be present.

 

Technically until you are given approval you can't have a second.

 

 

[ROGER.G]

O. K. In my case the AP was also the test pilot, so I guess I was lucky!