CHECK THIS ! OH CASA AGAIN !

[ian00798]

Thanks for your reply Ian ! You obviously know a little about the Pelair crash ! What's your opinion of that ?I'm not discriminating against you for who you. Work for ! I feel wheels up and the second time and the circumstances are not good ! My opinion ! To have the head of Casa on board and try make it trivial is not good !

I've had a VCA and my situation showed the controller had made a mistake ! A big one and I let it go ! I had controllers in Canberrra save my bacon ! Very impressed and apppreciative !

My opinion on the Pel-Air crash is far outside the scope of this discussion and I haven’t had the chance to read the updated report, so I am refraining from quoting on that one.

 

As I have said before, it is definitely not the finest moment in this pilots career, but going out like a lynch mob to attack the pilot for what was a genuine error is over the top. The media is sensationalising the mobile phone aspect, as of yet we don’t know why he was using the phone. There could have been a valid operational reason. I’m sure he does his checks, this time he made an error. The first wheels up doesn’t count, it was a mechanical malfunction, so he has one wheels up landing in 9000 hours. Not ideal, but not a horror show either.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Investigation: 199700429 - Wheels up landing involving a Cessna Aircraft Company 210L, VH-SKQ, Karratha, Aerodrome, WA on 15 February 1997[/url]Only atsb report I could find. Seems if this was the incident there is no way you can blame the pilot for this one.

Was it this one Camel?

 

 

[biggles]

Was it this one Camel?

The pilot who is the subject of this thread was still in secondary college in 1997...... Bob

 

 

[Camel]

The seven news shows the incident !

 

 

 

[Camel]

In 2005 or 2006 a pilot of a C337 made two seperate wheels up landings in northern WA whilst doing fish spotting as I was there and remembering reading these in crash comics in same edition same pilot in two accidents, same problem, ! Don't know if related but its not something you should do twice !

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Just watched the report you quote Camel.

 

 

It does not say this pilot has done this before. Listen again carefully. It says this incident will not be investigated despite a similar incident at Broome that was investigated. It does not say this pilot was involved. If I was you I would be very careful before making allegations on a public forum unless you are very sure of your facts.

 

Perhaps a checklist before posting?

 

 

[Camel]

You maybe right and I'm wrong ! I take your point but it is still not ideal to take phone calls or whatever excuse during landing to forget wheels !

 

 

[ian00798]

Still far from a horror show even if it was two. Once again, far more interested in the why rather than lynching the guy. There have been many of but for the grace of god moments in my flying career, but they are also good opportunities to learn.

 

 

[ian00798]

And as per what happyflyer said, that report in no way implies that he was involved in the other wheels up landing, it is pointing out the appearance of impropriety that a possibly similar incident was investigated while this one wasn’t.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

He didn't take a phone call he said the ringing of the phone distracted him.

 

 

[ian00798]

He didn't take a phone call he said the ringing of the phone distracted him.

And now the minor holes in the Swiss cheese are lining up. Turns out the bloke is human and capable of error, not an incompetent reckless maverick

 

 

[vk3awa]

Probably failure to do checks was this pilot's undoing. We are all taught to do checks during our standard circuit pattern and it becomes habit. This was a straight in approach which probably didn't help. I watched this happen as I have a great view of 09/27 from my hangar. I spent three hours helping get the aircraft on its wheels. Back engine had a prop strike. Cargo pod on the belly took all of the airframe damage - Lucky he had a cargo pod.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Many years ago people in gliding in Australia were referring to the "downwind" check. Geoff Horwood pointed out that it is the "pre landing" check because in gliders you don't always get to do 3 legs of the circuit.

 

Regarding which: Remember when that was a strict CASA requirement "you must do at least 3 legs of the circuit"? Gone away and the sky hasn't fallen in.

 

 

[poteroo]

This was a straight in approach which probably didn't help.

Straight in approaches are definitely a factor. Due traffic in circuit, PIC is often flying slower to 'fit' into a landing sequence, perhaps with flaps-10 extended - but gear-UP. Very easy to miss the gear-UP situation - unless you have a very strict mid final habit of BUMPF. Only saved it myself on several occasions - all into busy locations, some CTR. Much more likely, (IMHO), if it's a lower HP aircraft, (eg, 172RG, PA-28R, PA-30), because you don't need the drag of the gear hanging out when you might need to accelerate or climb in a hurry. With something like a B36, or a B55/58, there's no shortage of HP, so gear can be dropped and speed kept up on approach.

 

Many years ago people in gliding in Australia were referring to the "downwind" check. Geoff Horwood pointed out that it is the "pre landing" check because in gliders you don't always get to do 3 legs of the circuit.

I think this was actively discouraged after the training syllabus revisions of 89/90 era. In my own operations, (GA & RAAus), I have long used the 'pre-landing' checklist. On return to circuit, I encourage students to run the checklist by 3nm, so that they can focus on traffic and their own handling.

 

 

[Bald Eagle]

Not wanting to throw more mud at this pilot but I think the second wheels up landing that is being spoken about here is this pilots first one which according to my colleagues in the workshop happened over in south Australia years ago, same type of aeroplane, C337, doing fish spotting, wheels up landing.

 

I know if I made two serious mistakes at work like this, my boss would sack me. On the spot !!

 

Maybe this commercial pilots license should be reviewed, what is going to be his next mistake ? select an empty fuel tank on take off with the phone ringing leaving say Essendon airport.

 

 

[SDQDI]

How can the second one be the first one? I am confused

 

 

[turboplanner]

Not wanting to throw more mud at this pilot but I think the second wheels up landing that is being spoken about here is this pilots first one which according to my colleagues in the workshop happened over in south Australia years ago, same type of aeroplane, C337, doing fish spotting, wheels up landing.I know if I made two serious mistakes at work like this, my boss would sack me. On the spot !!

Maybe this commercial pilots license should be reviewed, what is going to be his next mistake ? select an empty fuel tank on take off with the phone ringing leaving say Essendon airport.

Got some evidence? If there was a fish spotting accident it will be on record, and that would support your post.

 

 

[ian00798]

Not wanting to throw more mud at this pilot but I think the second wheels up landing that is being spoken about here is this pilots first one which according to my colleagues in the workshop happened over in south Australia years ago, same type of aeroplane, C337, doing fish spotting, wheels up landing.I know if I made two serious mistakes at work like this, my boss would sack me. On the spot !!

Maybe this commercial pilots license should be reviewed, what is going to be his next mistake ? select an empty fuel tank on take off with the phone ringing leaving say Essendon airport.

So your solution to not wanting to throw more mud at the pilot is to throw more mud at the pilot? Can I suggest if you have to use the words “I think” when suggesting the other wheels up landing was this pilots fault then that’s what is known as an unfounded accusation.....

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Not wanting to throw more mud at this pilot but I think the second wheels up landing that is being spoken about here is this pilots first one which according to my colleagues in the workshop happened over in south Australia years ago, same type of aeroplane, C337, doing fish spotting, wheels up landing.I know if I made two serious mistakes at work like this, my boss would sack me. On the spot !!

Maybe this commercial pilots license should be reviewed, what is going to be his next mistake ? select an empty fuel tank on take off with the phone ringing leaving say Essendon airport.

Perhaps someone could follow up the comment made quite early in this thread that the first wheels up was a hung up nose wheel : ie a mechanical failure not a pilot failure -

Was that first comment a known event or a speculation. If it was mechanical then this counts as his first

 

 

[ian00798]

Jaba, I don’t think anyone has even conclusively shown he had a second gear up landing yet, it’s all been speculation and stuff people heard from a friend of a friend etc

 

 

[Yenn]

I see that this is pointing up the fact that a lot of people here go off half cocked. Please get the facts straight or state what you know to be true as well as slagging off at someone.

 

I feel that most of what I see here is just people having a say about something they know little about, which is also what I see in the general recreational pilots talk.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Not wanting to throw more mud at this pilot but I think the second wheels up landing that is being spoken about here is this pilots first one which according to my colleagues in the workshop happened over in south Australia years ago, same type of aeroplane, C337, doing fish spotting, wheels up landing.I know if I made two serious mistakes at work like this, my boss would sack me. On the spot !!

Maybe this commercial pilots license should be reviewed, what is going to be his next mistake ? select an empty fuel tank on take off with the phone ringing leaving say Essendon airport.

Better hope you are right about this. The first bloke to accuse this pilot of a similar thing on this thread got it totally wrong. There's a big difference speculating about a prang with your mates in private compared to making accusations on a public forum.

 

 

[Bald Eagle]

I think what is being missed here is we have a commercial pilot that has a record of wheels up landings, maybe there is a problem, maybe the pilot is human.

 

What would Alan Joyce say to his pilots if they had mobile phones hooked up to his aeroplanes ?

 

 

[Happyflyer]

I think what is being missed here is we have a commercial pilot that has a record of wheels up landings, maybe there is a problem, maybe the pilot is human. What would Alan Joyce say to his pilots if they had mobile phones hooked up to his aeroplanes ?

How about supplying some facts about your allegation.

Most pilots with a Bluetooth headset will be linked to a phone at times. Very handy for AWIS, notifying change of arrival times and many other things.

 

 

[ian00798]

I love how we supposedly have a pilot with a history of making wheels up landings just because some people on here said that is the case. I really hope some of the people on here never have to serve on a jury in their lives.