Incident at Bendigo

[alf jessup]

Bendigo Airport re-opens following light plane crash

 

Looks like a Foxbat had a bit of an incident this morning at Bendigo

 

Pilot and pax ok by the sounds of it which is always good to hear

 

 

[slb]

Yes, very glad to hear both Instructor and student received minor injuries only.

 

 

[BLA82]

That’s one very bent plane

 

 

[Butch]

That’s one very bent plane

Think it was one of Soar Aviation's aircraft from Moorabbin.

I was flying in Bendigo on Saturday and they had five Fox bats doing training in the circuit .

 

Seems like most students are low hours doing touch and goes. Makes the circuit busy (and interesting) with up to seven in the circuit at one time and some students with very poor English skills.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Heard a rumour that it was a practice EFATO that didn’t go so well

 

 

[SSCBD]

Think it was one of Soar Aviation's aircraft from Moorabbin.I was flying in Bendigo on Saturday and they had five Fox bats doing training in the circuit .

Seems like most students are low hours doing touch and goes. Makes the circuit busy (and interesting) with up to seven in the circuit at one time and some students with very poor English skills.

Bankstown many years ago used to have 20 aircraft in the circuit using 3 runways and also training Garuda pilots with a six week English course! - and that was fun watching a Cessna 150 waffle all around on finals in front of you for runway left and you are in a twin for runway centre with the closing rates. So please don't give me a busy circuit with seven aircraft. Really.

 

 

[aro]

Presumably Bankstown had a tower keeping the big picture though, not to mention multiple runways and circuits. Seven aircraft OCTA on a single runway is pretty busy.

 

 

[SSCBD]

Presumably Bankstown had a tower keeping the big picture though, not to mention multiple runways and circuits. Seven aircraft OCTA on a single runway is pretty busy.

Not really - and specifically on finals up to 9 aircraft and overtaking happened!!. Every man (pilot) for themselves - we used to call it doge the students!

Sorry don't accept that. Seven aircraft in circuit is not hard - really. for students yes maybe but then they should be with instructor in that case till they are in-front of the aircraft. Speed control and lookout, wide or tight circuits depending on aircraft types and speeds.

 

 

[aro]

specifically on finals up to 9 aircraft and overtaking happened

IMHO overtaking on finals means it's out of control and unsafe.

 

 

[SSCBD]

IMHO overtaking on finals means it's out of control and unsafe.

It was the wild west sometimes.

 

 

[Love to fly]

Bankstown many years ago used to have 20 aircraft in the circuit using 3 runways and also training Garuda pilots with a six week English course! - and that was fun watching a Cessna 150 waffle all around on finals in front of you for runway left and you are in a twin for runway centre with the closing rates. So please don't give me a busy circuit with seven aircraft. Really.

For many of us 7 aircraft in the circuit is considered busy. Particularly as that is 7 aircraft for one runway .. kind of equates to 21 in the circuit with 3 runways. And yes no issues with parallel ones and people straying but it's still busy. So please ...

 

 

[Butch]

Bankstown many years ago used to have 20 aircraft in the circuit using 3 runways and also training Garuda pilots with a six week English course! - and that was fun watching a Cessna 150 waffle all around on finals in front of you for runway left and you are in a twin for runway centre with the closing rates. So please don't give me a busy circuit with seven aircraft. Really.

Sorry for my whinging!

 

Not all of us are, super can handle everything while doing the crossword type pilots with 20 aircraft flying around them in circles

 

Bendigo is usually very quiet with only a few in the circuit, when a school comes in with five planes doing intensive training combined with four of our own BFC training planes it can get fairly busy. I feel for the trainee pilots trying to do their first solo !

 

I think that's why SOAR aviation comes to Bendigo from Melbourne, they try and give their students a bit of space but it becomes a bit annoying for the locals.

 

 

[facthunter]

And I suppose they kick in a bit for the Xmas party? Nev

 

 

[Love to fly]

Sorry for my whinging! Not all of us are, super can handle everything while doing the crossword type pilots with 20 aircraft flying around them in circles

Bendigo is usually very quiet with only a few in the circuit, when a school comes in with five planes doing intensive training combined with four of our own BFC training planes it can get fairly busy. I feel for the trainee pilots trying to do their first solo !

 

I think that's why SOAR aviation comes to Bendigo from Melbourne, they try and give their students a bit of space but it becomes a bit annoying for the locals.

You weren't whinging. I think the reason moorabbin students are going elsewhere for circuits are the lengthy start up delays. And that was before the current lighting maintenance Ian crane issues seeing some YMMB runways closed.

 

 

[Butch]

And I suppose they kick in a bit for the Xmas party? Nev

Yep sure!

 

I only hope the local council don't click on to it...before we know it we will all have to pay landing fees !

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Not really - and specifically on finals up to 9 aircraft and overtaking happened!!. Every man (pilot) for themselves - we used to call it doge the students!Sorry don't accept that. Seven aircraft in circuit is not hard - really. for students yes maybe but then they should be with instructor in that case till they are in-front of the aircraft. Speed control and lookout, wide or tight circuits depending on aircraft types and speeds.

Given the current trend of broadcasting on every leg of the circuit at CTAFs, it would sound busy!

I agree, compared to the training boom of the early 90s, things are very quiet these days.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

From the RAAus accident summaries. Well done RAAus for the timely info.

 

Summary: As the student applied full power and we started to conduct the take-off roll on runway 17, there was a slight crosswind from the left, student did not use correct crosswind technique. The nose of the plane started to veer to the left. At this stage the instructor started to take control of the aeroplane, applied right rudder to straighten the nose. At the same time, the student applied back pressure on the controls, over rotated, and resulted in tail strike. Instructor tried to push the control forward to regain control of the aircraft. However, the student had frozen on the controls. The aircraft gained height, but due to high nose attitude, the aircraft stalled and the left wing dropped. As the wing dropped it clipped the ground, which spun the plane 180 degrees and nosedived into the ground.

 

 

[facthunter]

Difficult if both are flying the plane. This Is the big eternal dilemma of the Instructor. How far to let it go? There has to be a clear point it which you take FULL control and leave no doubt about it. There is nothing new in this. Its been there since flying instruction commenced. The briefing at some early time in training, must spell it out and clear and unequivocal and reinforced, if necessary.

 

The Instructor IS the PIC, the student must understand that fact. or there is" no show". It doesn't happen.. That could easily have been a double fatal. I wasn't there but have had similar situations arise and have commented HERE a few times on it. Instruction (practical flying) isn't easy. On such occasions you have microseconds to get it right and recover it safely . Very glad they are OK and The report is out quickly. More than that is needed though..Nev

 

 

[alf jessup]

I think when the student freezes the instructor has a serious problem in the short amount of time he has

 

A quick elbow to the face should get them to release quick if time permits

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Interesting report on accidents during flight training.

 

http://caa.gov.il/index.php?option=com_docman&view=download&category_slug=2015-10-13-06-38-50-2&alias=4419-instructionalaccidentreportfinal&Itemid=669&lang=he

 

 

[phonetic]

Im sure the aerodrome operator & aero club, dont mind the extra income

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Difficult if both are flying the plane. This Is the big eternal dilemma of the Instructor. How far to let it go? There has to be a clear point it which you take FULL control and leave no doubt about it. There is nothing new in this. Its been there since flying instruction commenced. The briefing at some early time in training, must spell it out and clear and unequivocal and reinforced, if necessary.The Instructor IS the PIC, the student must understand that fact. or there is" no show". It doesn't happen.. That could easily have been a double fatal. I wasn't there but have had similar situations arise and have commented HERE a few times on it. Instruction (practical flying) isn't easy. On such occasions you have microseconds to get it right and recover it safely . Very glad they are OK and The report is out quickly. More than that is needed though..Nev

When someone actually freezes on the controls, they actually freeze on the controls, and they have to be physically overpowered, which takes time.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Difficult if both are flying the plane. This Is the big eternal dilemma of the Instructor. How far to let it go? There has to be a clear point it which you take FULL control and leave no doubt about it. There is nothing new in this. Its been there since flying instruction commenced. The briefing at some early time in training, must spell it out and clear and unequivocal and reinforced, if necessary.The Instructor IS the PIC, the student must understand that fact. or there is" no show". It doesn't happen.. That could easily have been a double fatal. I wasn't there but have had similar situations arise and have commented HERE a few times on it. Instruction (practical flying) isn't easy. On such occasions you have microseconds to get it right and recover it safely . Very glad they are OK and The report is out quickly. More than that is needed though..Nev

Stated differently, if someone freezes on the controls, they are not flying the plane anymore.

 

In fairness to you, if the instructor had taken control of the aircraft earlier, the student might have removed their hands from the controls. On the other hand, people grab stuff out of fear. If they were about to freeze they might have ignored the instruction to release the controls. Or, let go and grabbed them back.

 

I wonder if that would make centre sticks safter than yokes.

 

I once froze at the wheel of a car. I hope the same thing does not happen in an aircraft.

 

 

[facthunter]

IF the situation HAS BEEN WELL EXPLAINED, Like..." I as the instructor, always function as the PIC. when WE are flying together. ANYTIME I say I HAVE CONTROL you immediately relinquish the stick and respond "YOU" have control. That is the way it MUST be.. Not hard to work out why.

 

There have been circumstances where some one has allegedly frozen on the controls. IF you the student are given an absolute "I HAVE IT" I think many would realise what that means, and be relieved to not have to manage it. Your student must have a lot of confidence in you and you must merit such confidence. It "must be OK or my instructor wouldn't be with me doing this". He CAN get me out of it.. I know some instructors I would not give that trust to so I don't /won't fly with them.. There are times when two pilots mutually agree who is to be the PIC . There must be NO DOUBT. ever.. (Repeat 10 times). When there is a doubt it usually ends badly.

 

Freezing on the controls is a bit like Pilot error. There's usually much more to it. Nev

 

 

[johnm]

Apnatha & fh

 

I think you are saying the same ........ just a bit the difference

 

Freeze on controls .? ..... i froze twice ..... best ? ............ with an ag pilot flying in nz .... i was pic ? ......... big wind over an island say 3000 ft ..... smooth as till....... tomohawk started to roll ............. agy thought i might help pic in control .............. i knew agy ..... an trusted any input .................. learnt things that day !

 

I guess ? .......... pic should be obvious .......... some times its not .... but it should be .