Latest on the site update

[Admin]

As many will know I have been working for the last few months on the new site update. This update has become a turning point for the site even raising the question of whether the site should even stay in a forum type format as it is or even completely change it's whole foundation of how it goes about helping every recreational aviator.

 

The developer of the forum software has released a complete radical change to the entire fabric that makes up the forum. It has a complete new change of direction requiring a huge learning curve in its coding and its structure whilst leaving out many of its features and functionality. How Recreational Flying is built is by taking the forum software which includes core files and html templates, and I enhance the html templates and make minor changes to the php core files. I try not to change the core files as much as possible to make it easier for updating so I also develop pieces of my own code to override some components of the core php files.

 

On top of that I acquire modules from other developers who create extra features as addons to the site like the Classifieds, the Resources, The Media Gallery etc. I take those modules and customise them to suit the overall site look and feel plus also enhance them as well like I do to the forum software. I then develop the necessary functionality that brings everything together into one overall solution. Doing all this provides you with one very easy to use, enjoyable and satisfying user experience that ensures you get the extreme most out of the site rather than a resource that just turns you off ever using it.

 

Along with the new forum software requiring a massive new learning curve, many of those that have developed modules that I use today no longer produce them, especially not with the new forum structure. This means that to update the site many of the features will no longer be available like the Classifieds, the import to the new forum structure of the media gallery will lose all the existing media in it, the existing Post Ratings will have to be migrated to being just "Like" and other things. However the new forum software does have some extra great features with it as well. So you say "Well, just leave the site as it is!" but in the not too distant future the software will be at its "End of Life" which means no more updates, no security fixes etc forcing me to do something anyway.

 

The point I am trying to make is it is going to be really really hard which ever way I will go and I am not sure whether this tired brain is going to be any use any more.

 

I don't know which way to go for you all. Do we even consider a complete change of the site to a non-forum type resource like Facebook, or to a blog/news/article style site like using Wordpress, or what?????????

 

The site's growth is stagnant and has been for some time now. It still gets around 500 different registered users logging in every single day and around 3,000 unique visitors reading the site every day. The number of new threads and posts have also remained stagnant but there are new users registering on the site every day. The site got really hostile so I took action to entice those hostile posters to go away...a bit of damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario but there is less hostility on the site these days but the quality of recreational aviation posts has declined, in my opinion. With RAAus the way it is these days I am also not sure whether I have the incentive any more, from the days that I so much loved anything and everything to do with recreational aviation...it was my passion but has the passion now gone because of RAAus? I have seen with the many people that I have respected in our industry to leave it as they too lost the passion, or it was driven out of them. So is Recreational Flying even worth it these days i.e. worth all the hard work, long hours, huge financial cost to support a destroyed industry with this site?

 

I am so open to your comments on a way forward for the site as I just don't know what to do. It will still take many more months of work to update the site, I could just start the site again with just the forums and existing threads and posts and slowly add all the other functionality and features as I relearn them with the new code. Do I forget that and look for other means to help everyone to help everyone else in recreational aviation? Do I bow out, disappear and let the hostiles come back in to increase the flying posts and let them take over.

 

Perhaps there is a solution you know of and I can't see because I am just too tired?

 

Here are some early screen shots of the new forum software:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[robinsm]

Ian, Instead of reinventing the site, leave it for another 12 months, only doing minor tweeks as required and concentrate on developing the store as a source of income for yourself and your family. The site may be stagnant as you say (not growing fast enough with new users, but have you considered that because of the market you have, membership will slow down as you reach semi saturation point. The numbers, without going global, are finite and the membership of this site is huge. A return to the chaos of yesteryear is something no one wants. Maybe, as you pointed out before, a small management committee, with yourself having the golden vote may be the way to go. (3 plus yourself maybe?) Give yourself more time for yourself and your family.

 

I think the development of the shop (in all its categories) may also be the way to go for yourself.

 

I agree, the politicking, and the empire building, is tiring and does tend to leave the enthusiasm in its wake but I think those on this site are more interested in the "just flying, not bulldust" info and discussion this site is known for.

 

Thank you for your enthusiasm and hard work over the years.

 

My hand is up as always if needed

 

Take care.

 

 

[Ayecapt]

I am a member of a couple of closed groups on facebook. The admin (group )i think has control over unacceptable posts and who can join the group. And its easy enough to follow a topic. Now let me say outright that i am not a big fan of facebook , but it does have its uses and good points. At the very least there is no software maintenance workload.

 

There are already many aviation closed groups on facebook.

 

A big loss by going to facebook is loss of identity , but perhaps this can overcome by using existing imagery to get a bit of the original site ambience .

 

At our airfield we a young fella still at school, keen as mustard, his preferred comunication method is facebook. And i guess most new youth aviators will be the same.

 

Perhaps we could create a facebook closed group page for recreational flying and simply test it out. Would need 4 or 5 admins to approve new group members and veto inappropriate posts. Run it as a test in parrallel with this site for a year.

 

As to privacy i am not a troll but i dont use my real name or details on facebook, i use a cartoon name an alias , much the same as most of s do here on this forum . So privacy should be no issue.

 

Cant comment on how to do the shop side of things but facebook is commercial. Personally i use the shop. I go there first when i need to purchase aviation stuff . Dont always get what i need there but will buyif its available and priced right. Would not like to see that disappear. To me the shop is a valuable resource.

 

Happy new year. To you all

 

Brian

 

 

[robinsm]

I am a member of a couple of closed groups on facebook. The admin (group )i think has control over unacceptable posts and who can join the group. And its easy enough to follow a topic. Now let me say outright that i am not a big fan of facebook , but it does have its uses and good points. At the very least there is no software maintenance workload.There are already many aviation closed groups on facebook.

 

A big loss by going to facebook is loss of identity , but perhaps this can overcome by using existing imagery to get a bit of the original site ambience .

 

At our airfield we a young fella still at school, keen as mustard, his preferred comunication method is facebook. And i guess most new youth aviators will be the same.

 

Perhaps we could create a facebook closed group page for recreational flying and simply test it out. Would need 4 or 5 admins to approve new group members and veto inappropriate posts. Run it as a test in parrallel with this site for a year.

 

As to privacy i am not a troll but i dont use my real name or details on facebook, i use a cartoon name an alias , much the same as most of s do here on this forum . So privacy should be no issue.

 

Cant comment on how to do the shop side of things but facebook is commercial. Personally i use the shop. I go there first when i need to purchase aviation stuff . Dont always get what i need there but will buyif its available and priced right. Would not like to see that disappear. To me the shop is a valuable resource.

 

Happy new year. To you all

 

Brian

Would not a closed group[ shoot yourself in the foot and severely limit your exposure and potential members?

 

 

[Ayecapt]

Would not a closed group[ shoot yourself in the foot and severely limit your exposure and potential members?

Guess it could, im no expert on social media. Its also possible that closed groups have a membership limit. This alone might rule this concept out.

 

However closed groups are not secret groups. Their existence is not hidden . Especially to tech savvy youngsters.

 

Cheers And hope we can resolve this for the benifit of all forum members and unload Admin of some work!

 

 

[Ayecapt]

Perhaps a public group might work, it seems the admins can do most of the things to moderate the group that forum admins currently do .

 

Group Management for Admins | Facebook Help Centre | Facebook

 

 

[Admin]

Thanks for the comments thus far...I have been looking into th3 Facebook Group idea however it is so limited compared to forums where you can have separate forums for different topics and the ability to do extensive seraching. Plus with all the limitations that Tacebook has each site user would have to join facebook and then end up being plagued with all their paraphanalia emails. A forum site seems to have the best features, functionality and a greater more pleasurable user experience...sorry for mentioning Facebook but it was just an example of other forms of different mediums

 

 

[Ayecapt]

Thanks for the comments thus far...I have been looking into th3 Facebook Group idea however it is so limited compared to forums where you can have separate forums for different topics and the ability to do extensive seraching. Plus with all the limitations that Tacebook has each site user would have to join facebook and then end up being plagued with all their paraphanalia emails. A forum site seems to have the best features, functionality and a greater more pleasurable user experience...sorry for mentioning Facebook but it was just an example of other forms of different mediums

I think most of us like the forum as it is now. And that then is the dilema ..... how to keep it operating in the ever changing world of IT.

 

 

[Admin]

That's the biggest problem about statistics and surveys...they are always directed towards the wrong sampling. "Most of us like the forum as it is now" would be those that use the site so naturally they like it as it is now, but it could be said those that don't use the site don't like it. Yes 500 registered users log in every day and in real terms that could equate to say for the sake of discussion 1,000 registered users logging in every 2nd day (500 one day and a different 500 the following day)...etc but what about those 500, or 1,000 or even 2,000 that don't even use the site...how do we know what they don't like about the site?...do they even know the site exists?...and even if we were able to survey only those that don't like the site how do we know what they say is really true given all the political and personal agendas, and we have seen many a user come on here with extreme agendas, cause trouble and then go no longer seen on the site again.

 

This is why I have always tried to make the site the best resource possible, including keeping the site updated to make it work better, to help recreational aviators rather than let it sink into anarchy but there is always a price to pay on both sides of the coin, personal and professional. I guess the dream of just seeing everyone with the common interest of recreational aviation coming together, helping each other, enjoying each other's company and their words is just that, a dream. Did you know that one person could post something that later saves the lives of several fellow aviators? It's a pity that agendas, politics and nastiness seems to be put before that by some people, and imagine how great such a resource could be if people didn't do that and placed a higher value on other people than their own agendas, politics and personalities. Perhaps the enthusiasm might not just return to resources like this site but also to the whole recreational aviation industry, imagine that!

 

 

[Ayecapt]

That's the biggest problem about statistics and surveys...they are always directed towards the wrong sampling. "Most of us like the forum as it is now" would be those that use the site so naturally they like it as it is now, but it could be said those that don't use the site don't like it. Yes 500 registered users log in every day and in real terms that could equate to say for the sake of discussion 1,000 registered users logging in every 2nd day (500 one day and a different 500 the following day)...etc but what about those 500, or 1,000 or even 2,000 that don't even use the site...how do we know what they don't like about the site?...do they even know the site exists?...and even if we were able to survey only those that don't like the site how do we know what they say is really true given all the political and personal agendas, and we have seen many a user come on here with extreme agendas, cause trouble and then go no longer seen on the site again.This is why I have always tried to make the site the best resource possible, including keeping the site updated to make it work better, to help recreational aviators rather than let it sink into anarchy but there is always a price to pay on both sides of the coin, personal and professional. I guess the dream of just seeing everyone with the common interest of recreational aviation coming together, helping each other, enjoying each other's company and their words is just that, a dream. Did you know that one person could post something that later saves the lives of several fellow aviators? It's a pity that agendas, politics and nastiness seems to be put before that by some people, and imagine how great such a resource could be if people didn't do that and placed a higher value on other people than their own agendas, politics and personalities. Perhaps the enthusiasm might not just return to resources like this site but also to the whole recreational aviation industry, imagine that!

Yes that is humanity at its worst. The dream we have was shared by Gordon Brittas the fictional recreation centre manager. But alas he did not achieve it either.

 

During the two most major conflicts last century people sent ( note sent ) white feathers to men that stood up and stated that they were non combatants . How many of those white feathers were delivered face to face ? Not many i bet. Forums and social media are exactly like that ! People feel free to abuse the ideas and thoughts of others but they wouldnt be so harsh face to face. Its also easy to be mis interpretted and very hard to correct mis interpretation .

 

This forum however is one of the better ones. So believe me its worth saving. If during its time it has stopped a single incident then its worth it . And i bet that many a pilot has learned things that make the skys safer .

 

Not a lot of comments on this toplc I note......

 

 

[Birdseye]

"Do we even consider a complete change of the site to a non-forum type resource like Facebook"

 

I sincerely hope not, I detest that platform.

 

 

[Ayecapt]

"Do we even consider a complete change of the site to a non-forum type resource like Facebook"

I sincerely hope not, I detest that platform.

No i doubt facebook is a real option . As stated earlier its not suitable.

 

 

[GyPySusi]

As many will know I have been working for the last few months on the new site update. This update has become a turning point for the site even raising the question of whether the site should even stay in a forum type format as it is or even completely change it's whole foundation of how it goes about helping every recreational aviator.The developer of the forum software has released a complete radical change to the entire fabric that makes up the forum. It has a complete new change of direction requiring a huge learning curve in its coding and its structure whilst leaving out many of its features and functionality. How Recreational Flying is built is by taking the forum software which includes core files and html templates, and I enhance the html templates and make minor changes to the php core files. I try not to change the core files as much as possible to make it easier for updating so I also develop pieces of my own code to override some components of the core php files.

 

On top of that I acquire modules from other developers who create extra features as addons to the site like the Classifieds, the Resources, The Media Gallery etc. I take those modules and customise them to suit the overall site look and feel plus also enhance them as well like I do to the forum software. I then develop the necessary functionality that brings everything together into one overall solution. Doing all this provides you with one very easy to use, enjoyable and satisfying user experience that ensures you get the extreme most out of the site rather than a resource that just turns you off ever using it.

 

Along with the new forum software requiring a massive new learning curve, many of those that have developed modules that I use today no longer produce them, especially not with the new forum structure. This means that to update the site many of the features will no longer be available like the Classifieds, the import to the new forum structure of the media gallery will lose all the existing media in it, the existing Post Ratings will have to be migrated to being just "Like" and other things. However the new forum software does have some extra great features with it as well. So you say "Well, just leave the site as it is!" but in the not too distant future the software will be at its "End of Life" which means no more updates, no security fixes etc forcing me to do something anyway.

 

The point I am trying to make is it is going to be really really hard which ever way I will go and I am not sure whether this tired brain is going to be any use any more.

 

I don't know which way to go for you all. Do we even consider a complete change of the site to a non-forum type resource like Facebook, or to a blog/news/article style site like using Wordpress, or what?????????

 

The site's growth is stagnant and has been for some time now. It still gets around 500 different registered users logging in every single day and around 3,000 unique visitors reading the site every day. The number of new threads and posts have also remained stagnant but there are new users registering on the site every day. The site got really hostile so I took action to entice those hostile posters to go away...a bit of damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario but there is less hostility on the site these days but the quality of recreational aviation posts has declined, in my opinion. With RAAus the way it is these days I am also not sure whether I have the incentive any more, from the days that I so much loved anything and everything to do with recreational aviation...it was my passion but has the passion. I have seen with the many people that I have respected in our industry to leave it as they too lost the passion, or it was driven out of them. So is Recreational Flying even worth it these days i.e. worth all the hard work, long hours, huge financial cost to support a destroyed industry with this site?

 

I am so open to your comments on a way forward for the site as I just don't know what to do. It will still take many more months of work to update the site, I could just start the site again with just the forums and existing threads and posts and slowly add all the other functionality and features as I relearn them with the new code. Do I forget that and look for other means to help everyone to help everyone else in recreational aviation? Do I bow out, disappear and let the hostiles come back in to increase the flying posts and let them take over.

 

Perhaps there is a solution you know of and I can't see because I am just too tired?

 

Here are some early screen shots of the new forum software:

 

[ATTACH]53218[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]53219[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]53220[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]53221[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]53222[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]53223[/ATTACH]

Ian,

 

From a little boy who saw a Tiger Moth (I have later guessed) fly over our pine tree in Tassie and has since been mad about engines and airplanes I wish you all the best in your endeavours.

 

If you can maintain a similar structure to the existing forum then that would be wonderful.

 

Please do not consider, in your words, a " non-forum type resource like Facebook ". This would, as far I have seen, enable complete domination and takeover by "facebook" or similar avenue.

 

Even though I do not fly, and haven't since 30 Years ago (Yes, it is 30 !) flying a "Paraplane" in New Jersey, USA, I try to keep up with all current developments and your Recreational Flying site/forum has been one of my favourite means of keeping in touch with those who still fly or keeping in touch with their endeavours.

 

And if I can be of any assistance to you in getting the forum updated, then please be my guest.

 

As I put in my re-subscription to (the US) Aviation Week and Space Technology, I am a "Temporarily Retired Engineer" which I did not expect them to put on my mailing address, which they did to my high amusement.

 

Regards,

 

George, aka GyPy.

 

 

[red750]

I have been a member of a number of forums, large and small. They all seem to have a large number of lurkers, (casual visitors), a few registered members, and a handful of regular contributors. From where I stand, this forum and WAU do extremely well. I think this is one of the best forums around.

 

I pinched some stats (they are publicly available on the site) from one such forum. I switched to that forum in May 2016, when another forum I was in folded. Just looking at the members list for that forum, there are a number who have not been online since 2012.

 

 

It has a total of 77 registered members. Actually, that is closer to 50, because I know a number have registered with multiple id's/logins. As you can see, the highest viewer count was in 2013! Only 5 members logged on in the past 24 hours, (I'm not named in the list, they don't have to tell me I've been online). Only about 8 regularly contribute. (Yes Ian, I have invited them to WUA a couple of times.)

 

I'm also a member of the Facebook 'Vintage Bonanzas' closed group. I get some magnificent photos on this group, some of which I have posted here. They make great desktop screensavers. I get pop-up ads for a multitude of other aviation groups every day - Cessna 172, Cessna 182, Mooney, Piper, etc. Here are a couple on my page right now.

 

 

One of the photos from the Vintage Bonanzas fb group.

 

 

 

 

[Bernie]

I visit this site each day when I have internet access , this year 2018 I will be out of internet access for most of the time , but when I can I catch up . I don't post much but that's just me , If I think I can contribute I do , I have known Ian for quite some considerable years .

 

He knows I will say this with out me saying it but I will ..... Ian its not broke so don't need fixing .

 

Bernie .

 

 

[turboplanner]

I am a member of a couple of closed groups on facebook. The admin (group )i think has control over unacceptable posts and who can join the group. And its easy enough to follow a topic. Now let me say outright that i am not a big fan of facebook , but it does have its uses and good points. At the very least there is no software maintenance workload.There are already many aviation closed groups on facebook.

 

A big loss by going to facebook is loss of identity , but perhaps this can overcome by using existing imagery to get a bit of the original site ambience .

 

At our airfield we a young fella still at school, keen as mustard, his preferred comunication method is facebook. And i guess most new youth aviators will be the same.

 

Perhaps we could create a facebook closed group page for recreational flying and simply test it out. Would need 4 or 5 admins to approve new group members and veto inappropriate posts. Run it as a test in parrallel with this site for a year.

 

As to privacy i am not a troll but i dont use my real name or details on facebook, i use a cartoon name an alias , much the same as most of s do here on this forum . So privacy should be no issue.

 

Cant comment on how to do the shop side of things but facebook is commercial. Personally i use the shop. I go there first when i need to purchase aviation stuff . Dont always get what i need there but will buyif its available and priced right. Would not like to see that disappear. To me the shop is a valuable resource.

 

Happy new year. To you all

 

Brian

I've participated in a few facebook pages from low volume hardly moving historic pages, which are great for providing links and photos, to pages that moved so fast there was no way to absorb the thousands of opinions on any subject. The main issue I have is the moving wall; the viewport is so small that it becomes laborious just to see the information posted yesterday. While it is rapidly searchable if you know what to search for (e.g.someone's name), it's a very unreliable medium for something with a lot of technical interest, like flying. I know of three spinoff aviation groups; two died out after about twelve months due to the moving wall and not being able to keep a subject going, and the other became swamped with RPT, endless aircraft spotter photos, and blogs. This site also suffers from disappearing content syndrome, so the same subjects are sometimes discussed over and over again when the solution was found several years ago, but has seen the FB and website based discussions come and go, and still may be the optimum group discussion product.

 

 

[David Isaac]

I have only been on this forum spasmodically for the last two years. In fact I haven’t flown for over two years. This forum is still the best information resource available. Facebook is no where near as traceable and wanders all over the place. Try and find a discussion on a topic six months ago ... hopeless.

 

This forum structure is logical and easy to search.

 

Pity to see it change. I can come back in after six months and pick up from where I was last time; follow any subject and banter with whoever I like.

 

It’s a pity the direction of software development takes us to places we need not go.