Fatal accident in Gloucestershire UK ( BBC link )

[Phil Perry]

Air Accident Investigation Branch at the scene of the fatal air crash on the Overbury Estate

 

As you can see from the pictures, the viz was not good. Air ambulance forced to land 3 miles away due to fog.

 

A pic of the aircraft held by the CAA Warrior 3 / 161

 

 

2 Dead at the scene R.I.P. This was a training flight. Other reports said that it took off from Gloucester Airport ( Staverton ) a short while before contact was lost.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

R.I.P. Apparently took off in flying conditions, but he Severn valley is apparently notorious for turning sour very quickly when dew point is close to temp.

 

Condolensces to family, friends and those affected.

 

 

[yampy]

Absolute tragedy ..My sincere condolences to the bereaved and my thoughts go out to the rescue service personnel .

 

Dave C

 

 

[old man emu]

Small debris spread. Front of aircraft bent sideways. Propeller blades bent at tip.

 

Stall/spin???

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Or graveyard spiral... Either way, really feel for those onboard and all affected.

 

My examiner here laboured the point how quickly the weather can turn in the UK... I have experienced it first hand, but thankfuly was able to maintain a horizon of sorts and fly into the Channel to the FIR without life vests on to maintain VMC andthat horizon. I am a bit fiurther south west, but the day started slighlty foggy, cleared to the point I was going to head to the local airfield and then clagged in.

 

I still havent done my IMCr (sub-ICAO instrument rating to keep us out of trouble). Since being laid off, I am doing the theory. and will be doing the prac as soon as I get a new role.

 

 

[facthunter]

Incipient or full spin or a spiral . ALL very possible/likely in a loss of visibility or horizon.. The spiral has the most potentially damaging velocities.Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Incipient or full spin or a spiral . ALL very possible/likely in a loss of visibility or horizon.. The spiral has the most potentially damaging velocities.Nev

This is what the local jungle drums are saying Nev,. . No instructor would take up a student into an 'iffy' wx forecast unless he was a total drongoe. . .. but it is an interesting point to note that Flying instructors in the UK do not HAVE to be I/R nor UK imc rated in order to teach flying in GA aircraft. . .

 

Personally, when I returned from Australia in 1983, I renewed and re-established my Instrument rating, and I held / renewed it for many years. . . as the weather here is a total bugger and can be very unpredictable to a clinical standard. I have no doubt that this has saved me grief on a number of occasions,. . I simply refiled IFR in any circumstance when VFR became impossible mid flight for whatever reason.

 

I no longer have that qualification, as I can't afford to keep it up on a state pension, nor fly GA very often. . . But when flying with friends as 'Advisory' ballast,. . at least I can steer them in the right direction. . . It surprises me still that flying schools really do not all prepare new pilots in the process of handling bad weather situations. . . in aircraft with minimal instrumentation too. . . No good buying an artificial horizon if you have no instrument flying experience, as some of my friends have done. . .which is why the weather related 'loss of control' accidents continue to occur. . .

 

 

[old man emu]

I always thought that the "blind flying" section of a student flight training was meant to put the frighteners into the student so they were too scared to fly into a shadow when they got their VFR licence. As always, there will always be the 'bold' young pilot who will claim that two hour's under the hood on a clear day is all that is needed to handle a quick shot through a storm front, or conducting a flight along a familiar VFR route when the cloud base is 100 feet below lowest safe height, and there's a gorilla in the mist called Turbulence.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

From an ATCO at Gloucestershire, posted on "Light aircraft crash in Worcestershire" 08/01/2018 - FLYER Forums

 

Gloucester ATC lost contact with the inbound aircraft at around 1240 today. The alarm was raised and, as you will have seen, the outcome was tragically fatal.

 

EGBJ 081150Z 05002KT 8000 FEW008 BKN014 02/01 Q1022=

 

EGBJ 081220Z 05004KT 8000 -DZ BKN008 OVC011 02/01 Q1021=

 

EGBJ 081250Z 05003KT 3500 -DZ BR BKN006 OVC010 02/02 Q1021=

 

TAF EGBJ 081102Z 0812/0821 04008KT 9999 BKN016 BECMG 0812/0815 BKN012 PROB30 TEMPO 0815/0821 4000 -DZ BKN007

 

Revised around the time of the accident....

 

TAF AMD EGBJ 081240Z 0812/0821 04008KT 9999 BKN010 TEMPO 0812/0821 8000 -DZ BKN007 PROB30 TEMPO 0812/0821 4500 BR

 

 

[Phil Perry]

From an ATCO at Gloucestershire, posted on "Light aircraft crash in Worcestershire" 08/01/2018 - FLYER ForumsGloucester ATC lost contact with the inbound aircraft at around 1240 today. The alarm was raised and, as you will have seen, the outcome was tragically fatal.

 

EGBJ 081150Z 05002KT 8000 FEW008 BKN014 02/01 Q1022=

 

EGBJ 081220Z 05004KT 8000 -DZ BKN008 OVC011 02/01 Q1021=

 

EGBJ 081250Z 05003KT 3500 -DZ BR BKN006 OVC010 02/02 Q1021=

 

TAF EGBJ 081102Z 0812/0821 04008KT 9999 BKN016 BECMG 0812/0815 BKN012 PROB30 TEMPO 0815/0821 4000 -DZ BKN007

 

Revised around the time of the accident....

 

TAF AMD EGBJ 081240Z 0812/0821 04008KT 9999 BKN010 TEMPO 0812/0821 8000 -DZ BKN007 PROB30 TEMPO 0812/0821 4500 BR

Thanks for that Jerry. The CAA say that the aircraft was based at Coventry, whether that was it's actual point of departure on the day of the Accident I do not know. However, most of the Midlands area was reporting large areas of fairly foggy / misty conditions on that day. Will have to wait for the official AAIB report for the clinical details. Terribly sad anyhow.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I always thought that the "blind flying" section of a student flight training was meant to put the frighteners into the student so they were too scared to fly into a shadow when they got their VFR licence. As always, there will always be the 'bold' young pilot who will claim that two hour's under the hood on a clear day is all that is needed to handle a quick shot through a storm front, or conducting a flight along a familiar VFR route when the cloud base is 100 feet below lowest safe height, and there's a gorilla in the mist called Turbulence.

No, they teach you scanning of TSO'd instruments, and 180 degree turns with the idea of allowing a better chance for you to turn around and get out of IMC. When I did it, it was clear that if you relaxed on your scanning, you'd find a wing drifting down etc. so it was useful in terms of coming out of it KNOWING you weren't qualified; and you know that with your marginal performance, there was no way you'd know which way was up in bad weather conditions, with the buffeting you referred to. I got a bonus on my last lesson where I had performed well and was flying totally to my scanning and not from the seat of my pants. I heard a radio transmission from the instructor, and realised he was taking us back into the circuit. He called the turns which I performed faultlessly, and I thought he was going to get me to land it on instruments alone, but he pulled the hood off at about 100 feet. For a while I couldn't handle visual flying and ballooned up about 50 feet, then down to low, then back up, finally making a reasonable landing. That bit taught me a lifetime lesson in the separation of mind from body I couldn't fly the thing with my eyes wide open.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

No, they teach you scanning of TSO'd instruments, and 180 degree turns with the idea of allowing a better chance for you to turn around and get out of IMC. When I did it, it was clear that if you relaxed on your scanning, you'd find a wing drifting down etc. so it was useful in terms of coming out of it KNOWING you weren't qualified; and you know that with your marginal performance, there was no way you'd know which way was up in bad weather conditions, with the buffeting you referred to. I got a bonus on my last lesson where I had performed well and was flying totally to my scanning and not from the seat of my pants. I heard a radio transmission from the instructor, and realised he was taking us back into the circuit. He called the turns which I performed faultlessly, and I thought he was going to get me to land it on instruments alone, but he pulled the hood off at about 100 feet. For a while I couldn't handle visual flying and ballooned up about 50 feet, then down to low, then back up, finally making a reasonable landing. That bit taught me a lifetime lesson in the separation of mind from body I couldn't fly the thing with my eyes wide open.

Oddly enough Turbs, I got told in advance during Early I/R training that I might have some difficulty 'Switching' from Instruments to Visual, and this was indeed correct, but it passed fairly quickly, as the instructor had placed me on a four mile final in a fairly strong headwind. . . it IS a bit of a weird sensation though I grant you. . . .but not so bad when you are expecting it. . .

 

 

[old man emu]

I wonder if that disorientation due to the change from IFR to VFR when breaking out of muck could be a contributor to some "flight into terrain" crashes.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I wonder if that disorientation due to the change from IFR to VFR when breaking out of muck could be a contributor to some "flight into terrain" crashes.

Everyone is different, but it's quite possible.

 

 

[facthunter]

Pilots like the "real" picture which gives far more information to the brain than any other presentation will including HUD. What your eyes perceive around you is a very strong input which instantly? overcomes other seat of the pants inputs which can be disorienting on their own... Limited panel is more removed from reality than what one would like. It's a lot harder to fly limited panel. and pretty tiring in any rough air. No direct attitude reference.

 

An AH is (sort of) like the real horizon visually where you fly the plane by attitude more directly by reference to it. for pitch and bank. If you keep it roughly right the plane will fly (somewhere). It was a giant leap from other previous aids in retaining control in IMC. Your scan of other instruments allows you to navigate and refine your management of the plane. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Pilots like the "real" picture which gives far more information to the brain than any other presentation will including HUD. What your eyes perceive around you is a very strong input which instantly? overcomes other seat of the pants inputs which can be disorienting on their own... Limited panel is more removed from reality than what one would like. It's a lot harder to fly limited panel. and pretty tiring in any rough air. No direct attitude reference.An AH is (sort of) like the real horizon visually where you fly the plane by attitude more directly by reference to it. for pitch and bank. If you keep it roughly right the plane will fly (somewhere). It was a giant leap from other previous aids in retaining control in IMC. Your scan of other instruments allows you to navigate and refine your management of the plane. Nev

'Limited panel can certainly be hard work Nev, . . especially if you Ain't Expecting it ! My one and only Gyro suction failure occurred whilst ferrying a PA28-R200 ( Arrow 3 ) from Ronaldsway, on the Southern tip of the Isle of Man, to Wycombe Airpark near London. I had met the owner at the TT races campsite on an old WW2 airfield at the North end. Nice chap, we got merry for a few nights all sat around a 44 gal drum for a 'Campfire' and exchanged 'bullcrap' biking and flying stories.

 

I had taken three bikes and loads of tents, assorted camping gear and many slabs of tinnies in the back of my van to the festival that year ( 1985 I think. . ) He had been asking the locals if anyone knew a Pilot well versed with the type, to fly it home for him as he had been offered a return trip via Dublin in his mate's 'Gin Palace 72 ft Yacht, which was moored up in Peel harbour. ( Bloody millionaires, doncha just love 'em ? )

 

Anyway, I offered to fly it back for him, after he'd stuck me on his insurance. . . and my younger Brother Ray agreed to drive the van / bikes back for me. ( was I current on type ? Yes. I hired one regularly )

 

The aircraft was parked at IOM Airport, and I filed IFR as the forecast was 'Iffy' for about half the route. I had the suction fail 3/4 of the way back, and fortunately the viz was, not brilliant but 'Useable' The AH settled on a 20 deg left bank and just sat there, so I was very glad I still had good ground ref. Cold shiver down my back thinking what could have happened if it had gone Tech much earlier and I hadn't cross referenced it properly with the turn and slip though. . . only takes a few moments to lose it in imc as you know. . .

 

After this incident, I practiced a lot of limited panel as all good instrument pilots should ! Anyway I liked IFR, as FSUs and Military ATC tend to look after you a lot better and that Radar Advisory service is ( WAS ) terrific. . .even when you're only carrying a stone age Mode C squawkbox. . .

 

***EDITED TO ADD***

 

I have to be honest here, I Never really enjoyed 'Single Pilot' IFR. . .there's too much to do and think about in a small place like the UK, with so many altitude / heading / frequency changes and the flight becomes more of a 'Job of Work' rather than an enjoyable pastime. . .It's often good to have another pair of hands in the office, especially when you are carrying innocent victi, er,. . Passengers.

 

Phil.