RAA fatality near Emerald

[Teckair]

You cannot legally fly a 9510 without a pilot cert something is defiantly wrong here if it has been reported correctly.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Yes once they have the pilot cert they can fly different types but they still have to have LP or HP as required. There are some who think HP should cover everything which is wrong.Any solo training prior to receiving the pilot cert has to be done in the same type of plane the dual training was done. And that was not negotiable.

LP / HP endorsements were withdrawn a few years ago during an ops manual re-issue (rev 7?)

The requirements regarding flying types a pilot hasn’t previously flown is addressed by a RAAP. The use of the term “type” in the RAAP is different to the aviation industry standard interpretation, which makes the RAAP difficult to follow. (ie industry defines a type by model / variant, whereas RAAus define type by design features. eg: Industry types: Cessna 172, Piper J3, Beech 58, whereas RAAus use features such as high/medium/slow speed, glass cockpit, wing characteristics, fuel system etc)

 

 

[Yenn]

It appears from what I see here that once you have a pilots certificate you can fly anything You are endorsed on HP, LP,TW etc.

 

That means I could legally fly a Drifter, as I have the required endorsements. I wouldn’t, want to try it without some help from an instructor.

 

Those women pilots who ferried aircraft in the war, not only did a great job, they also flew aircraft such as the Liberator without being allowed to use the auto pilot, which made life very difficult as the plane was designed to use the auto pilot to ease pilot load.

 

 

[facthunter]

I have read a copy or it may have actually been an original of the handling notes in regard to the Liberator specifically which I had a bit of an interest in, and was far from a perfect aeroplane, and some were flown with many systems inoperative, as part of the job for these ladies. but there's no reference to not being permitted to fly with use of autopilot. That story might have come from flying with it NOT working. being permitted..

 

Flying the two planes you do fly Yenn The drifter would be no sweat at all for you. Nev

 

 

[M61A1]

That means I could legally fly a Drifter, as I have the required endorsements. I wouldn’t, want to try it without some help from an instructor.

I think some common sense needs to apply here....The Drifter is a docile aircraft, and you fly a Corby, so it is quite reasonable to expect that you would have no difficulty.

Sure, get professional help if you feel you need it, but the reality is that if you are sensible about it, it will all end well.

 

Fighter pilots were often put in combat Spits with less than 20 hrs; a lot died. More Beaufighter pilots died in accidents while training in Mildura than in combat. Those were different times with different expectations

My earlier point about the ATA was only that many others before us have flown many types without anything more than some notes and common sense, so why over complicate it?

 

Training fatalities has nothing to do with the subject.

 

 

[Ron5335]

More Beaufighter pilots died in accidents while training in Mildura than in combat.

Once again Statistics at work.

 

Maybe a true account, but the "Combat" area may well have been defending Mawson Base in Antarctica (Just in case the enemy showed up there).

 

 

[turboplanner]

Once again Statistics at work.Maybe a true account, but the "Combat" area may well have been defending Mawson Base in Antarctica (Just in case the enemy showed up there).

It could also have been at Surfers looking for white pointers; but it wasn't.

 

 

[bull]

IS it actually a single seater? re the crash, something has to be very wrong somewhere to go IN like that .Nev

95.10 rego/ so single seater

 

 

[bull]

As a CFI I was told a student who did not yet have a pilot certificate has to do any solo flying in an aircraft the same as they had done their dual training in. And that it was not negotiable.For those who don't believe me ring the OPS manager.

 

I find it astonishing that no one seems to know this.

The first solo test after completion of a successful written test ,,YES must be conducted in the aircraft type in which you train ,,,BUT any solo flying the restricted pilots certificate holder conducts after that can be in any aircraft within the group he trained be that single seat or two seater so you are wrong there as a restricted pilots certificate should be issued by Raa after completion of successful first solo,,,,so any solo training I do after that including circuits and bumps and small trips within 25 nmof my home strip can be conducted legally and cheaper than being shafted by greedy cfi,s who would like to make you think otherwise and take you for 160/200 hr

 

 

[bull]

Being told something does not make it fact. Seeing it in writing would carry far more weight than just being told by someone.I am not having a go at you here Teckair, but it seems absolutely amazing to me that there can any dispute about such an important matter.

If someone could point out a reference that may help clarify what to me seems like it should be obvious.

 

I am not an instructor so I do not know the rules, but I must admit that there is no way I would have wanted to solo in a single seater after having done all my training in a Dual place aircraft.

 

Even now I would want to do a lot of homework before flying a single seater for the first time.

Jeff I trained in a lightwing and soloed in a lightwing after 7 hours after a break of 20 years in which I had done 10 hrs with Pat Magrath in a lightwing in 2000 and after the issuing of my restricted I brought and soloed in a single seat loehle parasol , and then brought a two seater quicksilver gt500 tandem seater, and after a compleat study up on both aircraft did not have any issues with flying both ,so I don,t really see the great fear everyone on here is trying to promote..[ps , I also do have to tell you that back in 1985 till about 1988 I flew around in a two seat jemini for a couple of hours with Jeffery payne and then flew a single seat fisher Koala without any problems then ,,oh and it was legal too]

 

 

[Gravity]

Interesting that this thread does show mass confusion re the regs, now that's a worry!!

 

 

[facthunter]

How does it affect the average joe who just sticks with what he/she knows.? It's when you purchase and service /build that you need this detailed /historic knowledge.. Aside from that, the regs ARE rather specialised knowledge. as they grew like topsy making little sense. at times.. Who would claim to be across it? nev

 

 

[Teckair]

The first solo test after completion of a successful written test ,,YES must be conducted in the aircraft type in which you train ,,,BUT any solo flying the restricted pilots certificate holder conducts after that can be in any aircraft within the group he trained be that single seat or two seater so you are wrong there as a restricted pilots certificate should be issued by Raa after completion of successful first solo,,,,so any solo training I do after that including circuits and bumps and small trips within 25 nmof my home strip can be conducted legally and cheaper than being shafted by greedy cfi,s who would like to make you think otherwise and take you for 160/200 hr

What a load of nonsense.

 

 

[Teckair]

You are required to do 5 hours solo to get your pilot cert.

 

 

[farri]

Interesting that this thread does show mass confusion re the regs, now that's a worry!!

Yes! Well! maybe if the regs were written a bit easier to understand instead of having this bit referring to that bit which then refers back to another bit and on and on it goes.

 

I started before the AUF Manual 1 was approved and now we`re up to RA-Aus manual 7.1; Regulations governing 95-10 registered aircraft don`t concern me at all anymore but in an attempt to assist others, I`ve spent a fair bit of time going through the current ANO 95-10, the RA-Aus Ops manual, the Syllabus of training and I`m still not sure exactly what the requirements are.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Gravity]

Yes! Well! maybe if the regs were written a bit easier to understand instead of having this bit referring to that bit which then refers back to another bit and on and on it goes.I started before the AUF Manual 1 was approved and now we`re up to RA-Aus manual 7.1; Regulations governing 95-10 registered aircraft don`t concern me at all anymore but in an attempt to assist others, I`ve spent a fair bit of time going through the current ANO 95-10, the RA-Aus Ops manual, the Syllabus of training and I`m still not sure exactly what the requirements are.

 

Frank.

Gee Frank that's even more a concern especially with your background!

Reminds me of Part 61 & CASA's CASR's, 20 yrs of confusion & an utter waste of public money wth CASA themselves having little idea what's going on there in Fort Fumble!!

 

 

[Keith Page]

Wrong, solo flying as a student has to be in the same plane as you trained in.

How would the situation be interpreted? If the student had gained his Pilot Certificate and as yet had not attained his cross country endorsement, bear in mind the cross country is endorsement. Without the cross endorsement the pilot could legally fly around the airport for years gaining hours and skills, he can even fly till he has to do his BFR.

KP

 

 

[Keith Page]

As a CFI I was told a student who did not yet have a pilot certificate has to do any solo flying in an aircraft the same as they had done their dual training in. And that it was not negotiable.For those who don't believe me ring the OPS manager.

 

I find it astonishing that no one seems to know this.

What is the case if you have your pilot certificate and do not have your cross country endorsement?

One can do a great number of hours with a certificate and no cross country endorsement. (Cross Country is an endorsement.)

 

One can not sit for a cross country endorsement until they gone solo and have gained their pilot certificate.

 

KP.

 

 

[bull]

What a load of nonsense.

Not so much nonsence if you talk to many a new flyer training today,the amount of overcharging and excessive training going on , really requires some indepth investigation by RAA...

 

 

[bull]

You are required to do 5 hours solo to get your pilot cert.

Yes you are quite correct about the 5 hrs solo to certificate,,,it,s the bullshit hours after that ,that greedy cfi,s convince newbies that they are ""required to do in the schools 2 seater with an instructor sitting next to him twiddling his thumbs counting the dollars in his mind that are NOT a requirement of RAA op manual

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Interesting that this thread does show mass confusion re the regs, now that's a worry!!

It happens almost every threat where there is some ambiguity in what was reported. It's the system, its designed that way.

 

 

[Keith Page]

It happens almost every threat where there is some ambiguity in what was reported. It's the system, its designed that way.

That is all correct --- the correction is not more rules but clear precise procedures and systems.

What we get is Safety and Safety and Safety. Develop a set of governing principals with clear systems and procedures as a guide -- then safety will be a natural by product of that.

 

KP

 

 

[farri]

As I recall it, in the early days of the AUF, numerous fatal accidents occurred to pilots coming from GA high-performance aircraft, into low-performance, high drag, low momentum aircraft; Ultralight, flight training began with the Austflight Drifter and the Thruster Gemini, both low-performance, high drag, low momentum Ultralights` and anyone wanting to fly those types of aircraft had to do a certain amount training in them, regardless of their GA qualifications.

 

These days most flying schools use high-performance LSA to instruct and it doesn`t seem to make much sense to me, instructing someone in the latest LSA, high-performance aircraft, who will then go and fly some low-performance 95-10 aircraft...I don`t agree with overcomplicating anything but is this the correct way to go?

 

Frank

 

 

[Camel]

Yes you are quite correct about the 5 hrs solo to certificate,,,it,s the ******** hours after that ,that greedy cfi,s convince newbies that they are ""required to do in the schools 2 seater with an instructor sitting next to him twiddling his thumbs counting the dollars in his mind that are NOT a requirement of RAA op manual

I'm a little disturbed by this statement as I know there are some greedy ones but you must realise that when someone goes solo they get slack and pick up bad habits and they need to be corrected ! 5 hours solo can not be done in a block without any instruction or checking as the student may get in trouble with bad habits !

 

It is a requirement of RAA ! as the student has to show competence ! A lot of miss information is being put up here ! Read the ops manual and especially the duties of CFI, student syllabus and training requirements !

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Yes you are quite correct about the 5 hrs solo to certificate,,,it,s the ******** hours after that ,that greedy cfi,s convince newbies that they are ""required to do in the schools 2 seater with an instructor sitting next to him twiddling his thumbs counting the dollars in his mind that are NOT a requirement of RAA op manual

Yep, those greedy, millionaire CFIs. I say rubbish. Name them!