Engine Failure Does Not Cause A Fatal Accident In An Ultralight Aircraft!

[Gravity]

A 95-10 ultralight. Four engine failures. 3 at below 200 AGL and one on crosswind joining the circuit at 1000. Walked away from one because it got dark, so I trailered the plane back, and flew away from the rest after fixing the cause of the failure on the same day. No damage due to the outlanding. First one, I just stared incredulously at the stationary prop for some time before I reacted, (not good in a low inertia ultralight), but the rest were just another day at the office, but without the noise, type landing. None of my engine failure training, ie find a field get to a downwind /base corner at 1000AGL and then land normally was any use. Not that close to the ground.However my training did include to avoid overflying tiger country, so every landing although a bit bouncy was a good landing regardless of the dead stick. I look for suitable landing sites first and at the scenery second.

Engine failure should not be fatal in an ultralight. As long as you avoid tiger country and regardless what happens FLY THE PLANE, right through the crash.

excellent post. Just out of curiosity how many hours have you amassed for those 4 engine failures?

 

 

[farri]

My partner who is not a pilot or aviator, knows a ultralight aircraft with a sink rate of 5 feet a second controlled emergency landing is a lot safer than sitting on a road motorcycle hitting a car at 10kph, in fact rather wants me to fly ultralight aircraft than ride motorcycle on the road

I`ve done both and I pretty much agree! I rode motorcycles on the road for years and raced on dirt and grass track for a few years; I`ve done so many high-risk activities in my life, I reckon flying Ultralight aircraft has probably been one of the safest...I`m now retired from my primary occupation of sugarcane farming but when I was farming, the yearly fatality rate of farmers, throughout the country, was an average of 30, apparently, these days quad bikes take out more; I still use a quad bike around the property and I have never been hurt by it.

 

Back to Ultralights and the sink rate: The sink rate depends on several variables but stall any Ultralight and the sink rate will be well above 5 feet a second so without the height and the ability required to recover from it, there is very little chance of surviving the impact.

 

Hyperthical: Happily flying along satisfied there`s what appears to be a suitable landing area well within gliding distance if the engine stops and suddenly it does! No problem! Nose down, set up best glide speed, keep it flying and making the landing area looks certain! Now getting to the point where there`s no option other than to land straight ahead and suddenly what looked like a nice flat grassy field, from a few thousand feet up is, in fact, a field full of huge boulders covered by long grass....................Too late, it`s all over!!!

 

A few years ago a similar situation happened to a very experienced local AUF/RA-Aus CFI at his satellite training facility strip. He took off from his FTF with a student, flew out to his satellite strip, landed too fast, overran the runway, hit a mound of dirt covered in grass, (OH! Sh!t That Wasn`t There Last Time!), flipped the AC over... Result: One AC needing re-building and two guys in the hospital...The mound of dirt wasn`t there the last time he`d used the strip but had been put there since!

 

Frank.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I`ve done both and I pretty much agree! I rode motorcycles on the road for years and raced on dirt and grass track for a few years; I`ve done so many high-risk activities in my life, I reckon flying Ultralight aircraft has probably been one of the safest...I`m now retired from my primary occupation of sugarcane farming but when I was farming, the yearly fatality rate of farmers, throughout the country, was an average of 30, apparently, these days quad bikes take out more; I still use a quad bike around the property and I have never been hurt by it.Back to Ultralights and the sink rate: The sink rate depends on several variables but stall any Ultralight and the sink rate will be well above 5 feet a second so without the height and the ability required to recover from it, there is very little chance of surviving the impact.

 

Hyperthical: Happily flying along satisfied there`s what appears to be a suitable landing area well within gliding distance if the engine stops and suddenly it does! No problem! Nose down, set up best glide speed, keep it flying and making the landing area looks certain! Now getting to the point where there`s no option other than to land straight ahead and suddenly what looked like a nice flat grassy field, from a few thousand feet up is, in fact, a field full of huge boulders covered by long grass....................Too late, it`s all over!!!

 

A few years ago a similar situation happened to a very experienced local AUF/RA-Aus CFI at his satellite training facility strip. He took off from his FTF with a student, flew out to his satellite strip, landed too fast, overran the runway, hit a mound of dirt covered in grass, (OH! Sh!t That Wasn`t There Last Time!), flipped the AC over... Result: One AC needing re-building and two guys in the hospital...The mound of dirt wasn`t there the last time he`d used the strip but had been put there since!

 

Frank.

A lot of interesting practical information coming up on this thread. The first hypothetical can certainly happen, but facing that boulder field at glide speed, you still have the option of steering between a few before the hit comes , or even stalling tail first from a couple feet vs. no chance of survival stalling from 30 feet trying to avoid the field.

Hypothetical 2 is interesting. Was the Satellite field an authotised landing area, ot operating airfield and was the dump within the strip boundary. If it was, the responsibility the owner and the person who dumped the dirt there comes into play. However, again, the benefit of putting the aircraft on the ground at landing speed shows the benefit over stalling ot hitting a tree or powerline at flying speed.0

 

 

[Gravity]

I`ve done both and I pretty much agree! I rode motorcycles on the road for years and raced on dirt and grass track for a few years; I`ve done so many high-risk activities in my life, I reckon flying Ultralight aircraft has probably been one of the safest...I`m now retired from my primary occupation of sugarcane farming but when I was farming, the yearly fatality rate of farmers, throughout the country, was an average of 30, apparently, these days quad bikes take out more; I still use a quad bike around the property and I have never been hurt by it.Back to Ultralights and the sink rate: The sink rate depends on several variables but stall any Ultralight and the sink rate will be well above 5 feet a second so without the height and the ability required to recover from it, there is very little chance of surviving the impact.

 

Hyperthical: Happily flying along satisfied there`s what appears to be a suitable landing area well within gliding distance if the engine stops and suddenly it does! No problem! Nose down, set up best glide speed, keep it flying and making the landing area looks certain! Now getting to the point where there`s no option other than to land straight ahead and suddenly what looked like a nice flat grassy field, from a few thousand feet up is, in fact, a field full of huge boulders covered by long grass....................Too late, it`s all over!!!

 

A few years ago a similar situation happened to a very experienced local AUF/RA-Aus CFI at his satellite training facility strip. He took off from his FTF with a student, flew out to his satellite strip, landed too fast, overran the runway, hit a mound of dirt covered in grass, (OH! Sh!t That Wasn`t There Last Time!), flipped the AC over... Result: One AC needing re-building and two guys in the hospital...The mound of dirt wasn`t there the last time he`d used the strip but had been put there since!

 

Frank.

Good post there 'farri' real life stories get the most attention! When I was involved in the EMS world years ago farmers had a few ways of killing themselves but top of the list was quad bikes! Very dangerous contraptions! Tractor roll overs, firearms, electrocution, heart attacks, another that is prevalent in farmers I won't mention but most would know and even falling off large hay stacks, seen it all but not one in my time from flying although one guy was seriously injured from trying to start some home made flying machine!

 

 

[Callahan]

My favorite topic. Engine failures! I've had many. Regular aircraft & ultralights.

 

But here's my slant & two cents worth. How many of you are favorites of using roads (highways) for a landing spot (in lieu of a golf course that is)?

 

Well, I am. Big Time. They've saved my ass many times. Just remember! Traffic has priority! If it's a choice between the front bumper or the windshield of an innocent human, I would always choose a tree in lieu of anything else. Preferably my cockpit between two trees.

 

Powerlines are a hazard but can usually be seen in time to go over or under. I once went over one then under another I didn't see until the last moment. Lucky day that was.

 

I've had a lot of low time & high time pilots tell me they'd never try for a road. They're wrong. Use 'em.

 

 

[facthunter]

Depends if there are powerlines,, road traffic, tree overhang and cattle grids. etc.. In the outback it would pay to be on or close to a road for recovery and assistance and remote area roads are good navigation aids, IF you have identified it correctly. If there's a track where cattle feed has been laid out in a paddock, you can usually trust that area will carry a plane.( like we fly). also. Nev

 

 

[farri]

Hypothetical 2 is interesting. Was the Satellite field an authotised landing area, ot operating airfield and was the dump within the strip boundary. If it was, the responsibility the owner and the person who dumped the dirt there comes into play. However, again, the benefit of putting the aircraft on the ground at landing speed shows the benefit over stalling ot hitting a tree or powerline at flying speed.0

This wasn't a Hypothetical, it is a true story.The CFI is a guy I`ve known very well since my teenage years and that`s how he told me it happened. I didn`t like to ask too many questions about it so all I know is what I`ve written in my post #152.

 

This is also a true story: This happened a couple of years ago, don`t recall exactly when... A very experienced fixed wing and Gyrocopter pilot who I also know very well had an accident with his quad bike on his private property and severely injured one of his shoulders; on this particular day he thought the shoulder was well enough to go for a fly in his very expensive Gyrocopter; before he could get it off the ground the shoulder gave in and Gyro was extensively damaged, fortunately! he wasn`t and is still with us but I don`t know what has become of the Gyro

 

Moral of the story?.... I hope everyone get`s it.

 

Frank.

 

 

[farri]

My favorite topic. Engine failure. here's my slant & two cents worth. How many of you are favorites of using roads (highways) for a landing spot (in lieu of a golf course that is)?.

Thanks, Callahan! You`ve led the way to a couple more true stories.

 

This guy started flying in Tiger Moths, he was the first of our club members to obtain his AUF pilot certificate in my Drifter, he used to say "Tiger moths are good but Drifters are better" and went and bought one, flew it for many years then decided to build another type which he flew a few times before having an engine failure in it, up around the Ravenshoe area of North Queensland where lived.

 

I`ve never forgotten this one and what he told me, he said, " I had nowhere else to go so I had to get around some trees and put it down on the road"! The road he was flying over went west from Ravenshoe over some hilly country and had numerous blind corners due to the cuttings through the ridges and he just happened to have to come down between one of those cuttings; he landed a bit sideways, the AC swung to the left, the right wing went up high enough for a vehicle coming around the blind corner to pass under the wing, the AC slamed into the bank of the cutting and was extensivilly damaged; though he wasn`t critically injured he had life lasting injuries and that was the end of his flying days.

 

Powerlines are a hazard but can usually be seen in time to go over or under. I once went over one then under another I didn't see until the last moment. Lucky day that was.

Wasn`t so lucky for one of the guys I`d instructed who stupidly decided to buzz his wife and two teenage children in their vehicle driving on the highway! He a hit powerline and the AC fell on the road in front of the car! Another guy I instructed was flying with him in his Drifter, stayed up around 1500` agl and saw it all happen...The guy who hit the power line died the next morning...A terrible tragedy and It`s brought tears to my eyes just writing this.

 

Wasn`t so lucky for Ron either! He knew the powerline was there but forgot about it.

 

 

Frank.

 

 

[boleropilot]

I'll never forget what happened on my first solo (um - the one where I got the Drifter off the ground) - I was warned very sternly what was going to happen when I pulled the throttle at the end of the downwind leg...

 

But it was still a shock, after all those training hours with a 'heavy' instructor in the back seat - it felt like the Drifter just hit a brick wall - stick forward FAST and then start the turn...

 

A little off track but there has been some comments on stall/spin so I'll ask the question - what do other pilots think about rounding out the corners from the end of downwind (like the Rhino pilots do it)

 

I can't see it would be a problem for anyone looking for you in the circuit because you would be pretty well where your circuit calls would say you are anyway

 

The big advantage is that you are removing two 90 degree turns from your circuit and that essentially removes two opportunities for stall/spin...

 

And re. EFATOs, I know a pilot who always moves the aircraft off a little to the right as he climbs away to give him a 180 around to the left if the fan stops

 

Yeah I know we're talking circuit funny buggers here (and this would only work at 'quiet' country 'fields) but every little bit helps and if it keeps you on your toes it can't be a bad thing...can it?

 

BP

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'll never forget what happened on my first solo (um - the one where I got the Drifter off the ground) - I was warned very sternly what was going to happen when I pulled the throttle at the end of the downwind leg...But it was still a shock, after all those training hours with a 'heavy' instructor in the back seat - it felt like the Drifter just hit a brick wall - stick forward FAST and then start the turn...

A little off track but there has been some comments on stall/spin so I'll ask the question - what do other pilots think about rounding out the corners from the end of downwind (like the Rhino pilots do it)

 

I can't see it would be a problem for anyone looking for you in the circuit because you would be pretty well where your circuit calls would say you are anyway

 

The big advantage is that you are removing two 90 degree turns from your circuit and that essentially removes two opportunities for stall/spin...

 

And re. EFATOs, I know a pilot who always moves the aircraft off a little to the right as he climbs away to give him a 180 around to the left if the fan stops

 

Yeah I know we're talking circuit funny buggers here (and this would only work at 'quiet' country 'fields) but every little bit helps and if it keeps you on your toes it can't be a bad thing...can it?

 

BP

Just as a matter of interest, were you taught to do Rate 1 turns in the circuit? If you follow that training, you will not need oval circuits, and if you do happen to misjudge alignment on base you will just work your way aoround and correct on final. No spins necessary.

 

 

[farri]

And re. EFATOs, I know a pilot who always moves the aircraft off a little to the right as he climbs away to give him a 180 around to the left if the fan stop.Yeah I know we're talking circuit funny buggers here (and this would only work at 'quiet' country 'fields) but every little bit helps and if it keeps you on your toes it can't be a bad thing...can it? BP

Over the years I`ve flown from numerous country strips and to this day, relative to the conditions occurring at the time and the terrain ahead, once I`m off the ground and climbing I head in the direction that gives me the safest option for a forced landing! it isn`t just engine failure that can cause a forced landing!

 

As I understand it, the regulation requires that the upwind leg be flown in a straight line to an altitude of 500` agl before commencing any turn...I`ve flown more types than can be counted on two hands and all of those could be turned safely well below that height.

 

As for circuit funny buggers! As far as I`m concerned, the right circuit pattern is the one that keeps me and others, safest.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I can honestly say, I don't know if it was an instructor, reading it in a magazine/book or that I just worked it out, but I have always flown where possible withing gliding distance of an airfield/strip or if not, always had at least one identified field within gliding distance identified when enroute. There are times when you can't avoid tiger country - in my case crossing the channel - in which case I have the life vests on and the inflatable raft ready to go. Some won't do it without a full immersion suit - given I am always planning a ditching near one of the plethora of commercial ships when I fly across the channel so my risk assessment is the gear I carry is enough. However, if I were flying across Bass Strait, I may take a different approach.

 

FYI - 6 microlights flying across the channel from France to England. They may have a LAPL (Euro wide sub ICAO licence), but my guess is they are mainly NPPL...

 

 

 

[Gravity]

I can honestly say, I don't know if it was an instructor, reading it in a magazine/book or that I just worked it out, but I have always flown where possible withing gliding distance of an airfield/strip or if not, always had at least one identified field within gliding distance identified when enroute. There are times when you can't avoid tiger country - in my case crossing the channel - in which case I have the life vests on and the inflatable raft ready to go. Some won't do it without a full immersion suit - given I am always planning a ditching near one of the plethora of commercial ships when I fly across the channel so my risk assessment is the gear I carry is enough. However, if I were flying across Bass Strait, I may take a different approach.FYI - 6 microlights flying across the channel from France to England. They may have a LAPL (Euro wide sub ICAO licence), but my guess is they are mainly NPPL...

 

Now that is brave stuff!

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

In some respects, yes, but a hell of a lot easier to get out of I would imagine than an inverted PA28.

 

 

[farri]

If I recall correctly, some years ago a guy took-off from England in a Microlight, intending to cross the Channel to France, then on to the rest of the world! He never made it to across and the safety gear he was carrying was of no value to him either...Don`t recall if he or his Microlight was ever found.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Bats]

This one? Microlight pilot Martin Bromage killed in crash over English Channel on first day of charity flight to Australia | Daily Mail Online

 

 

[Bats]

A little off track but there has been some comments on stall/spin so I'll ask the question - what do other pilots think about rounding out the corners from the end of downwind (like the Rhino pilots do it)I can't see it would be a problem for anyone looking for you in the circuit because you would be pretty well where your circuit calls would say you are anyway

The big advantage is that you are removing two 90 degree turns from your circuit and that essentially removes two opportunities for stall/spin...

I have done both and quite like your method when flying trikes or Drifters (2 strokes) where I am perhaps a little less trusting of the engine and the high drag aircraft don't have a great glide ratio either, so I like to stay within gliding distance of the field if possible. Obviously at the bigger controlled fields you'll upset the natives if you insist on keeping in close and rounding out the ends of the circuit, but the turn from base to final is still a trap particularly in crosswinds, all the more so if you have had it hammered into your skull that "thou shalt not exceed 30 deg bank angle" and yield to temptation, trying to tighten the turn with rudder.

 

 

[farri]

This one? Microlight pilot Martin Bromage killed in crash over English Channel on first day of charity flight to Australia | Daily Mail Online

Thanks! That`s the one! Terrible to make it across, not be able to land, try to get back and not make it.

 

Frank.

 

 

[M61A1]

Some interesting stuff...

 

 

The obstacle course is worth watching too.

 

 

[turboplanner]

but the turn from base to final is still a trap particularly in crosswinds, all the more so if you have had it hammered into your skull that "thou shalt not exceed 30 deg bank angle" and yield to temptation, trying to tighten the turn with rudder.

As far as I'm aware, GA training has always been to turn the aircraft with bank, not rudder, so this would be a concern to any instructor.

If the turn needs to be tightened, GA training is to take the next step; open the throttle to the RPM for a Steep (Rate2/45 degree) Turn.

 

However, these people are scared of the 30 degree turn and are arguing for a much flatter turn (maybe 10/15/10 range).

 

 

[Bats]

Given that we're talking about the circuit, I find your turn tightening scenario unlikely in the extreme.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Given that we're talking about the circuit, I find your turn tightening scenario unlikely in the extreme.

So do I, but it’s being raised as an issue.

 

 

[M61A1]

I think you are correct in that it is an issue and a concerning one, but I have seen instructors get upset about banking more than 30 deg in the circuit, and pilots tend to listen to them, and whether subconsciously or deliberately they try to tighten the turn with rudder. (DJP posted a very good video about the scenario on another thread).

 

I completely agree that the best (only) way to tighten a turn is to add power (if you have insufficient airspeed) and bank, but it WOULD seem that some are still listening to the instructor( in the back of their mind) berating them for overbanking in the circuit. Then we have people stalling and spinning at unrecoverable altitudes.

 

Clearly it IS happening, regardless of rules, instruction and the best of intentions, so maybe we should actually consider why rather than just say it shouldn't happen. Otherwise HF is just box ticking and lip service.

 

 

[nomadpete]

I feel I have missed something in this argument about rate one turns in the circuit......

 

If the there is a need to tighten the turn onto final, and the turn is coordinated, and airspeed is kept at the approach speed (nose down or throttle up), what is the problem?

 

 

[M61A1]

Agree completely. But somehow it’s still killing people.