What is the easiest trainer to learn on?

[blueline]

What is the easiest plane to learn on?

 

I run a school using 2 Jabiru's and would like to get a type that is going to make it easier for "mature age" students to get a start on.

 

What would people out there suggest?

 

 

[Ross]

Hi Blueline

 

As a mature age student I did my initial RAA training in an early model Jab.That Jabhad 5 hours on it whenI started in 2004 with low flying experience in mostly gliders of about 200 hours going back to 1971. It drove me nuts for a while especially in the verticalpitch. I purposedly took most of my lessons in mid afternoon. One of the cross country training flights was to Ballarat where I tucked in behind a local Jab doing crosswind landings on 23.

 

I have had one flight in a J160 with a 2200 motor of about half an hour duration and it is a different aircraft in pitch compared to the 470 Kg MTOW Jab.Not nearly as twitchy as the early model Jabs. A few more horses would be nice with the increase in MTOW.

 

Despite being quite different from the early Jab I felt after that short flight in the owner built J160that it was just like the early model jabs to fly but without the instability. That may or may not be a good thing from an instructors point of view in trying to get a student to keep alert as to what his aircraft is doing.

 

Regards

 

 

[Admin]

Roger - At mid 40's I started on a Jab and after 7hrs I was almost going to give it away as I felt flying wasn't what I thought it would be. My wife convinced me to try another school and aircraft. I ended up training in a Gazelle which I felt was suited to my learning ability and style. I think the reasoning behind this is that I felt I was making gradual gains in my flying so I felt that there was a light at the end of the tunnel and I really was achieving something that was possible - all things that I wasn't getting when in the Jab.

 

I know the Gazelle is now considered by many as an old machine but I have seen some impressively presented well maintained Gazelles that are very cheap in hourly rate for a student to learn in and that in today's age is a key factor in getting people to learn to fly. I have heard it said that "Everyone wants to fly...but they just don't know it yet" so if the cost is low enough to entice those that are somewhat iffy about learning to fly then once they have tried it then a majority will keep going if the cost is acceptable. A cheap TIF may not entice people to learn to fly as any smart person would consider the whole picture - i.e. Why waste $50 on a TIF as to go further it will cost me a lot at $X every hour.

 

A negative of the Gazelle apart from certain aspects of the aircraft itself (e.g. interior room) is that whilst the Gazelle teaches you to fly it doesn't teach you to be a pilot. That is the difference - the Gazelle is maybe too easy - no flaps, very forgiving, you can almost just press a "Land Me" button and it will land for you.

 

As I said I learnt to fly in the Gazelle, then became Jab endorsed to learn to fly better with flaps and then I personally felt that I became a real Pilot in a CTsw that has many flap settings (including negative 12), is very very fast and slippery and just wants to stay up there and fly with a high glide ratio.

 

Finally the Tecnam is fast becoming an aircraft that is gaining the reputation of being an easy aircraft to fly (as I have found it to be) and thus suitable for training but at the cost of purchase similiar to say the CTsw then we go back to what I have said above - the cost of training! Here the question is - Is it better to have a Tecnam to get 6 students or a Gazelle to get 12 students? It all depends on your Business Model and Strategic Plan for your school which may include other options that can be offered - if you have Jabs then an option of a transition from a Gazelle to a Jab etc may be a part of your Business Model and your Strategic Plan may include objectives of promoting transition of Gazelle to jab (or other) to GA.

 

Finally, I must say that I do not have the knowledge in other types of aircraft and their suitability so I have only accounted for knowledge based on my experience but I am sure there are many other aircraft out their that may also be suitable. As I have indicated think about your Strategic Plan to Form an appropriate Business Model that is directed at your market (including a completed Competitive Analysis and Competitor Analysis) and all this will direct you into making the right choice when purchasing an aircraft for training needs.

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

Has to be the drifter. Comes from my own biased opinion but I am sure drifterdriver will agree. ;)

 

Jan

 

 

[blueline]

Thanks for your thoughts on this subject. The very latest Tecnam/Ct's etc are all more money than I can afford at the moment so a Gazelle might be worth a look (Drifter would be fun but Ballarat is a bit cold!)

 

I suppose it just depends on what becomes available at what price......

 

PS - Whatheightperson can fit into a Gazelle?

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

I am 198cm (I think 6ft 4" in the old language) and I can't fit into

 

the gazelle (I have tried it in a few gazelles). My knees keep on

 

knocking the switches on the dashboard.

 

BTW we have a "mature age" (76 years young) drifter flyer that went solo not long ago at heck field.

 

Regards,

 

Jan

 

 

[blueline]

We must be twins - I'm 198cm too! Looks like the Gazelle is going to be a problem, which is a real shame as I do like the price!.

 

I take it the drifter has no height issues?

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

The Bantam. Fly it blindfolded! The Drifter can be quite similar in alot of ways but I do believe the Drifter is alot more 'forgiving'.

 

 

[blueline]

What about room?

 

Any second opinions on the Bantam?

 

PS I amenjoying this forum more and more - thanks Ian

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

The Bantam can be a little 'restricted' when it comes to room. I mean, if the pilot (which I am of 90kg) can sit in there it's fine but you want to have a smaller PAX (like one of mates who I am sure is skinnier than a super-model). Ha ha. Drifter is ok as the pilot is up from and the PAX in the back. I am sure the Drifter will fit quite a large PAX.

 

 

[pylon500]

easier for "mature age" students

If you are of larger stature, getting on in years, don't like the cold or trying to fly on a pension, I would still suggest the best all round trainer has to be the LightWing.

If you really want to make training a bit easier, then you would probably go for an ALW2000, which is the tricycle gear version, trusty old 912 and on some models; flaps! ;)

 

A Technam Echo would be nice, but you could have an ALW2000 and a GR912 for the same price (second hand of course).

 

Keep building them LightWings Howie!!

 

Arthur.

 

 

[Ed Herring]

Hi Roger

 

I agree with Ian's comments on the Gazelle! We have one in our school and she is an absolute delight and excellent for "mature age" students. However most of them are now aging and as they are out of production schools are now looking at replacement with new generation aircraft. We had Caz Monteleone's demo Fly Synthesis Storch ( http://www.flysynthesis.com.au ) at our school for four months this year and she well and truly convinced us that she wasa worthy school trainerthat would satisfy the needs of both the mature age people and the also younger students.Well built, roomy, comfortable and forgiving with great performance arejust some of herattribrutes. At a similar cost to the J160 the F/S Storch is well worth adding to the list!

 

Regards

 

Ed

 

 

[blueline]

Nice looking plane, but the Texan looks sooooo much nicer (pity about the 100k price tag).....

 

I'll keep an eye out for any opportunity to fly these aircraft when the chance comes along.

 

 

[Pete-the-Pilot]

Can only be a Foxbat A22ls, more than enough shoulder room and no bloody control stick to get stuck on your legs --- great stall speed and more than enough cruise --90 knots for xcountry work, an all round excellent trainer and very safe aircraft to fly, has to be a Foxbat, go fly one and them make up your mind.

 

Pete.

 

 

[Guest Jake.f]

.

 

 

[Powerin]

Deleted.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...I take it the drifter has no height issues?

It is hard to bang your head on the top of an open cockpit ;-) It's a nice aircraft with great visibility.

 

 

[HEON]

I started with a Jab LSA and had a lot of problems. Was replaced in school with Jab 160 which I found a lot better however by then I had some time. Tried a Gazelle between these two and hated it, probably as so different to the Jabs.

 

Not long after getting my Pilots Certificate I had a go in a LightWing high wing nose wheel and Jab 230. They struck me as being much nicer to fly than the three other types I had used before. Around the same time flew the LightWing Speed (low wing). Loved it and purchased one, however there could be a problem with pilot height (Howie could have a solution to this) and costly as not many on second hand market.

 

In my expearance when a zero to very low hour pilot I would prefer in descending order of preference:

 

Lightwing Speed

 

Jab 230

 

LightWing 912 high wing

 

Jab 160

 

Gazelle

 

Jab LSA

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Blueline, may I suggest that you don't look for the 'easiest plane to fly'. If you have a Jabiru LSA55 at your disposal, go for it. Yes it's twitchy, it's different, but if you can fly that, you can fly anything. I've flown a Sportstar and a SportCub and they are sooo mundane in comparison.

 

As to your size, well I'm 6ft and around 100kgs. I fit in quite snuggley with a pax although at 69, getting out is sometimes a struggle. Not a flexible as I used to be. BTW, I didn't start flying until I was 64, certainly of 'mature age'.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

this thread was originally from 2006, no idea why pete the pilot revived her?

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Wow, didn't notice that. Still, the info might be of use to others.