Rules for learning in your own plane

[APenNameAndThatA]

This morning I went to a VH school thinking I was going to be discussing learning to fly in my (still imaginary) VH registered Foxbat. When I arrive, they told me that I could not do that because they would have to add my plane to their paperwork and it was expensive, involved lawyers and the chief flying instructor did not have time to organise it.

 

 

[SDQDI]

I don't know enough about the VH system in regards to Learning in your own plane BUT I would say ask another mob, get at least one more opinion.

 

I don't see what they would need a lawyer for?

 

 

[revsmith]

get another opinion. 40 yrs ago dad and I learnt in our own vh plane, but it had to be put in air work caterogory and insured/ maintained for same, plus nominated instructor, no trouble. must be different now.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Nothing stopping a school doing it but why? You’ll probably find the cost of the tuition plus your own costs will be more than doing it in their plane. Plus, with the experience under your belt you’ll be in a much better position to figure out what aircraft will suit you.

 

 

[pylon500]

This morning I went to a VH school thinking I was going to be discussing learning to fly in my (still imaginary) VH registered Foxbat. When I arrive, they told me that I could not do that because they would have to add my plane to their paperwork and it was expensive, involved lawyers and the chief flying instructor did not have time to organise it.

I've seen this before with GA schools.

Each slightly different aircraft requires an endorsement, and at least one of the employed instructors needs to be endorsed on type, then the school needs to have that type accepted and added to their AOC.

 

While working at bankstown, we 'inherited' an old C172, the boss thought it might be a good idea to have a hangar 'hack' for getting out to other airfields for quotes and temporary maintenance (even more complex), but found it very hard to find instructors or schools that would instruct us in our own aircraft without a load of paperwork.

 

Do you really need to have your Foxbat as a GA?

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

I've seen this before with GA schools.Each slightly different aircraft requires an endorsement, and at least one of the employed instructors needs to be endorsed on type, then the school needs to have that type accepted and added to their AOC.

While working at bankstown, we 'inherited' an old C172, the boss thought it might be a good idea to have a hangar 'hack' for getting out to other airfields for quotes and temporary maintenance (even more complex), but found it very hard to find instructors or schools that would instruct us in our own aircraft without a load of paperwork.

 

Do you really need to have your Foxbat as a GA?

I don't need to have it VH registered. I can train with a guy at Archerfield RAA, then patch over to a RPL so I can fly in controlled airspace. The plane would stay RA registered.

 

I hesitate to say this but the instructor only has 10 hrs in foxbats. He is a grade I instructor so I hope the other 19990 hrs that he mentioned count for something.

 

As for learning in my own aircraft, there are two things: time in type, and the parachute. I don't mind dying but the thought of plummeting to the ground wishing I had a parachute actually bothers me.

 

As for finding out what aircraft I want, I'm pretty sure its the best one for the mission.

 

Thank you for your replies. It is nice to know I was being told the truth. This might be my personal experience of the CASA rules and regs I hear about. I can imagine there must be one or two cashed up people peeved they can't learn in their own C172. Actually, 172's are probs not a problem because there will already be a school using them.

 

 

[poteroo]

Nothing stopping a school doing it but why? You’ll probably find the cost of the tuition plus your own costs will be more than doing it in their plane. Plus, with the experience under your belt you’ll be in a much better position to figure out what aircraft will suit you.

Good advice.

 

By the time you've completed your licence, you'll have changed your mind about which aircraft you might buy, or whether you'll join a group ownership scheme, or whether, (in the light of costs etc), you'll rent what you need. Most pilots who envisage flying the 'family' away for holidays, or friends to wherever - usually find that after the novelty wears off, and/or the pax have a rough trip - there will be empty seats forever. Be selfish - it's your hobby.

 

Schools are regularly asked to teach in owners aircraft. It's not a problem if: it has sufficient load carrying, it has adequate instrumentation, avionics, intercom + decent headsets, fully functioning dual controls, it is insured to cover solo student flying,(ouch!!), and it is maintained according to RAAus/CASA rules. All this costs! The fully functional dual controls is a very relevant item: and it includes brakes with RHS controls.

 

happy days,

 

 

[derekliston]

Good advice.By the time you've completed your licence, you'll have changed your mind about which aircraft you might buy, or whether you'll join a group ownership scheme, or whether, (in the light of costs etc), you'll rent what you need. Most pilots who envisage flying the 'family' away for holidays, or friends to wherever - usually find that after the novelty wears off, and/or the pax have a rough trip - there will be empty seats forever. Be selfish - it's your hobby.

 

Schools are regularly asked to teach in owners aircraft. It's not a problem if: it has sufficient load carrying, it has adequate instrumentation, avionics, intercom + decent headsets, fully functioning dual controls, it is insured to cover solo student flying,(ouch!!), and it is maintained according to RAAus/CASA rules. All this costs! The fully functional dual controls is a very relevant item: and it includes brakes with RHS controls.

 

happy days,

I built a two seater because I liked the idea of company, but most of my flying is solo, my wife doesn’t like flying and there aren’t too many friends around who want to fly with me apparently! As far as recovery parachutes go, Chris Heintz says it shows a lack of faith in the airframe. Also, once you pull that handle you have no control over where the aeroplane goes, powerlines, farm dam, highway, trees etc. While I accept that there may be times that I wished I had one, I am happy to fly without one, especially in my CH701 that only needs about 60 metres to get down safely. (Please fate, don’t prove me wrong)

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

I built a two seater because I liked the idea of company, but most of my flying is solo, my wife doesn’t like flying and there aren’t too many friends around who want to fly with me apparently! As far as recovery parachutes go, Chris Heintz says it shows a lack of faith in the airframe. Also, once you pull that handle you have no control over where the aeroplane goes, powerlines, farm dam, highway, trees etc. While I accept that there may be times that I wished I had one, I am happy to fly without one, especially in my CH701 that only needs about 60 metres to get down safely. (Please fate, don’t prove me wrong)

Chris Heintz takes it as an insult?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

(edited...mod)

 

..what a stupid statement...its pretty easy to land in 60 mtrs if some other knob takes off a wing or tailfeathers when you are in and around the circuit...then you may well be spread all over that 60 mtrs...what about flying over unlandable country

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

You descend at about 7 mtrs/sec with a chute deployed....would take my chances with landing on a powerline if it was a tossup of not having a chute and impacting into the ground at terminal velocity

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Apen

 

have you done any flying yet?

 

if not..just go to a school..and go for a couple of flights. Worry about actually getting some skills first before all of this. It doesnt happen in 5 hours you know

 

NIKE....just do it

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Apenhave you done any flying yet?

 

if not..just go to a school..and go for a couple of flights. Worry about actually getting some skills first before all of this. It doesnt happen in 5 hours you know

 

NIKE....just do it

20 or 30 hrs 20 years ago. Soloed in a 172 and a 152. Had a TIF in a Foxbat. Would not fit in the Savannah. Don't fit super well in a Eurofox (and the MTOW is only 560 kg). Need STOL, tricycle undercarriage, preferably metal, big wheels, factory built. 172 or 152 won't do because you need a calendar to measure the takeoff roll. Don't seem to be any second hand tricycle Maules for sale in Australia. Can't afford a King Katmai or a helicopter.

 

 

[derekliston]

Chris Heintz takes it as an insult?

Probably, but he shouldn’t. I believe more than 1 example of one of his designs have come apart in the air.

 

 

[derekliston]

(edited...mod)..what a stupid statement...its pretty easy to land in 60 mtrs if some other knob takes off a wing or tailfeathers when you are in and around the circuit...then you may well be spread all over that 60 mtrs...what about flying over unlandable country

True Mark, won’t argue with you on that one, but for the little flying I do I try to avoid unlandable country. Like I said, I hope fate doesn’t prove me wrong!

 

 

[derekliston]

(edited...mod)..what a stupid statement...its pretty easy to land in 60 mtrs if some other knob takes off a wing or tailfeathers when you are in and around the circuit...then you may well be spread all over that 60 mtrs...what about flying over unlandable country

Just a thought, if that ‘knob’ as you put it, takes your wing or tail feathers off in the circuit area then I doubt whether, between reaction and actuation time that it would save you!

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Probably, but he shouldn’t. I believe more than 1 example of one of his designs have come apart in the air.

So true. Duh. I hadn't even made the connection!

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Apen...you must be a pretty large guy...I was 6ft3 and 140kg when I learnt in a savannah...mind you it was a XL but the S is the same. I fitted reasonably easy. Then you have stringbeans like Steve....long and thin and fit also about 2 inches taller than me and he learnt in the same XL that I did. My XL is comfortable especially now that I converted it to a twin stick its super comfy. You must have gone for a fly in and Classic or a VG. The XL and S are 4 inches longer and 5 inches wider than those

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Just a thought, if that ‘knob’ as you put it, takes your wing or tail feathers off in the circuit area then I doubt whether, between reaction and actuation time that it would save you!

1000 ft should be more than enough, provided the reaction time is fast enough. According to the internet, it takes 5 s for a rock to fall 500 ft, and a person 6 s. So, if you collided at circuit height, you should have a good 5 s to react in time (memory says 500 ft min height but might be completely wrong)

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Apen...you must be a pretty large guy...I was 6ft3 and 140kg when I learnt in a savannah...mind you it was a XL but the S is the same. I fitted reasonably easy. Then you have stringbeans like Steve....long and thin and fit also about 2 inches taller than me and he learnt in the same XL that I did. My XL is comfortable especially now that I converted it to a twin stick its super comfy. You must have gone for a fly in and Classic or a VG. The XL and S are 4 inches longer and 5 inches wider than those

6ft 4in. Leg room was no problem at all in either plane. Headroom an issue in the Sav. Was definitely an XL

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Derek circuit height is 1000 ft the chute only needs 450ft at a min supposedly...They are supposed to be armed as part of your starting proceedure and of course the handle in a easy reached position. If I get shunted yes a second or two will be needed at least but at least it will slow you up and give you a chance...most fly 1500 or 2000 around the airfield. This is where I deem it to be the most usefull....if over tiger country then of course usually you will be as high as you can be and the plane is still flying so you have a lot more time

 

 

[Geoff13]

Going back to the original problem, why not go to a combined RAA/GA school that has Foxbats?

 

Do your RAA Cert in their aircraft whilst you are waiting for yours to arrive, then when yours arrives do your RPL conversion in it if it is VH registered.

 

There is such a school just up the road at Gympie.

 

This solves one of your earlier questions as well about finding an instructor the knows Foxbats as well.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Going back to the original problem, why not go to a combined RAA/GA school that has Foxbats?Do your RAA Cert in their aircraft whilst you are waiting for yours to arrive, then when yours arrives do your RPL conversion in it if it is VH registered.

There is such a school just up the road at Gympie.

 

This solves one of your earlier questions as well about finding an instructor the knows Foxbats as well.

I was going to learn to fly in Gympie, and negotiate a sweet deal because they will be my first choice of people to buy the plane from, unless I get a second hand one. Gympie is about three hours drive from Brisbane. The irony is that it would not really be practicable for the instructor to fly the plane down from Gympie to Archerfield to teach me! It's too far! From memory it is about 130 nm from Gympie airfield to Archerfield!

 

 

[derekliston]

Derek circuit height is 1000 ft the chute only needs 450ft at a min supposedly...They are supposed to be armed as part of your starting proceedure and of course the handle in a easy reached position. If I get shunted yes a second or two will be needed at least but at least it will slow you up and give you a chance...most fly 1500 or 2000 around the airfield. This is where I deem it to be the most usefull....if over tiger country then of course usually you will be as high as you can be and the plane is still flying so you have a lot more time

Go for it mate, I’ll hope that you never have to prove the point! Just as an aside, my son’s father-in-law had a Cirrus and it cost him almost as much (probably) as my aeroplane is worth to have the parachute system inspection, repack, whatever redone!

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Go for it mate, I’ll hope that you never have to prove the point! Just as an aside, my son’s father-in-law had a Cirrus and it cost him almost as much (probably) as my aeroplane is worth to have the parachute system inspection, repack, whatever redone!

$15000 from memory