Accident at Gympie

[facthunter]

IF you keep something in your field of vision you will hit it, same as if the other aircraft is stationary in your windscreen. Same as when landing you look further ahead during the flare or you will fly through the runway. Nev

 

 

[greybeard]

IF you keep something in your field of vision you will hit it, same as if the other aircraft is stationary in your windscreen. Same as when landing you look further ahead during the flare or you will fly through the runway. Nev

When I was training I found that looking at how hard the instructors hand was squeezing his knee was a good indicator of when to flare

[Soleair]

Target fixation works on motorbikes, too. When faced with a narrowing gap, look at the gap, not the rock and the hard place forming it, or sure as eggs is eggs you'll hit one of them. Don't ask me how I know

 

Bruce

 

 

[Malindi]

Don’t know about psychology but I have heard it termed as ‘target fixation’.

 

 

[Love to fly]

Obstacle fixation is a term I'm familiar with. When you think I must avoid xyz, and find yourself steering towards xyz ...

 

 

[turboplanner]

Should be taught as a subject in HF.

 

 

[Cosmick]

Some in the Bush would say "Like an Emu"

 

 

[c722352]

Interesting piece in the Gympie Times about this mishap, if you cannot read it load in an incognito window

 

Light plane 'written off' in disastrous Kybong landing

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Sounds like the poor student was just a bit behind the aircraft. Hope he flies again.

 

From the RAAus page

 

During solo circuit training, approaching the RWY for a touch and go, the aircraft was travelling at 55-60kts when the wheels first made contact with the RWY which caused the aircraft to bounce a few feet above the RWY. The student held the nose up expecting the aircraft to touch down but the second time the wheels touched the ground the aircraft bounced approx. 10ft off the ground and the right wing tip lifted high. The student then applied full power to climb out however as the right wing was high the aircraft banked to the left. The student then tried pulling the elevator back to lift the aircraft and apply right rudder, the aircraft kept banking to the left at level height approx. 10-15 feet AGL whilst turning a full 180 degrees and then dived into the ground nose first with the left wing tip down. The aircraft came to rest approx. 20m to the West of RWY 32 Gympie Aerodrome.

 

 

[planedriver]

Hope you got Nobags medicare number, so you at least get paid for the consultation Bex:cheezy grin:

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Target fixation is an attentional phenomenon observed in humans in which an individual becomes so focused on an observed object (be it a target or hazard) that they inadvertently increase their risk of colliding with the object. It is associated with scenarios in which the observer is in control of a high-speed vehicle or other mode of transportation, such as race-car drivers and motorcyclists. In such cases, the observer may fixate so intently on the target that they steer in the direction of their gaze, which is often the ultimate cause of a collision. The term target fixation was used in World War II fighter-bomber pilot training to describe pilots flying into targets during a strafing or bombing run.

 

Hope you got Nobags medicare number, so you at least get paid for the consultation Bex:cheezy grin:

I'm in China Mate, I already have his credit card number and bank details.

...and yours.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Having read the incident report, it would seem the pilot was unable to control the aircraft during the go around?

 

As an instructor, I have flown with many pilots who struggle to effectively execute a go-around. The common themes seem to be their instructor either intervened to rescue a poor landing or did not train the student to fly a go around at all. I insist on the trainee making the decision to go around and not wait for me to prompt them. I do teach how to recover from a minor bounce, but I never rescue a poor landing for them. If they’re not comfortable - go around!

 

I’m not saying this is the case here, but just passing on my observation. It would be good to see RAAus publish some training material on this subject.

 

 

[Camel]

Should be taught as a subject in HF.

It is a basic lesson taught to students landing ! To look at aiming point not at obstaclecles but scan and go back to aiming point ! It is a basic mistake to fixate to the side or elsewhere and ignore aiming point on runway !

[facthunter]

They get told to do it but perhaps explaining why( in some cases ) may help general understanding. Landing technique does vary a lot and if someone's judging it consistently well, Who would dare upset them? A mucked up go around is a critical situation. Going round earlier rather than attempting to correct the poor flare, is recommended for low hours pilots whereas a blip of power and a second flare is normal for people who fly all the time in the right plane in the right place.. Plenty of times a go around will be done without the wheels ever touching the ground. You do it when you feel the situation is not stable or safe to continue the approach. and land.. A severe bounce could result in a very high nose attitude which requires a very good level of skill to safely recover from often using ground effect and very accurate pitch and yaw control.. Often low hours pilots won't have these skills at the level needed if some situations are allowed to develop to the stage where high skill level is critical. Nev

 

 

[Roundsounds]

They get told to do it but perhaps explaining why( in some cases ) may help general understanding. Landing technique does vary a lot and if someone's judging it consistently well, Who would dare upset them? A mucked up go around is a critical situation. Going round earlier rather than attempting to correct the poor flare, is recommended for low hours pilots whereas a blip of power and a second flare is normal for people who fly all the time in the right plane in the right place.. Plenty of times a go around will be done without the wheels ever touching the ground. You do it when you feel the situation is not stable or safe to continue the approach. and land.. A severe bounce could result in a very high nose attitude which requires a very good level of skill to safely recover from often using ground effect and very accurate pitch and yaw control.. Often low hours pilots won't have these skills at the level needed if some situations are allowed to develop to the stage where high skill level is critical. Nev

When I teach stalling I put emphasis on the scenario exactly as you describe. A bounced landing - high nose attitude, decreasing airspeed, low power. The typical crap recovery taught during the pre solo stalling will not prepare a pilot for recovery from a bounced landing. Typically the trainee pilot is taught to recover from an entry from level flight, wings level and power off and to lower the nose, then apply power - how do you do that when 10 feet off the ground. In fact, I don’t actually have them stall until they can competently and confidently recover from just prior to the stall using the same technique you’d use in a go-around. I then progress to stall recovery, again from realistic scenarios such as crosswind and final turns.

[facthunter]

The "typical" stall appreciation/ tick box event we generally do is useless. In the real world it will never happen like that. Not all stalls are nose high either. Stall or spiral off a 45 degree + turn is required at least. till well handled. You can't do this legally in RAAus aircraft. Unusual attitude recovery at the same time in the same plane, or at least linked together with a structured training programme.. THEN we might be fair dinkum with this matter. Nev

 

 

[Camel]

You are probably right but they are told but they don't seem to register everything until they are ready to,!!!

 

Instructor Patter ! " Scan around but keep on your aiming reference point " , " scan but do not fixate on any one thing as it will distract you "

 

Does any of this sound familiar ?

 

 

[M61A1]

In regard to "fixation", I think that it would be very difficult to reprogramme, especially if they have already learned to drive. Our extremely flawed driver training basically teaches fixation. They are too concerned with the concept of "stop at all cost" rather than go around an obstacle. A local driving school even visits the high school and shows them how to fixate by demonstrating how you will hit something if you can't stop, with absolutely no attempt to go around. Not to mention the unceasing TV ads that show them how to run over people.

 

 

[facthunter]

What WE (as instructors) say is important to the people we teach. They often take it too literally as well. I recall that I did in some instances. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Bloody aeroplanes are to treesAs golf balls are to water traps.

We were talking simply about fixation with a tree.

[M61A1]

Maybe people are overthinking this.

 

If you look at the north end of the strip at Gympie there are plenty of trees. It would be quite likely that it was just a high probability that such an event was going to result in impacting a tree without being fixated.

 

 

[c722352]

Maybe people are overthinking this.If you look at the north end of the strip at Gympie there are plenty of trees. It would be quite likely that it was just a high probability that such an event was going to result in impacting a tree without being fixated.

I think you may be correct M61A the trees that got in the way after the bounces are off to the left I do believe after the bounces and the left wing striking the runway the aircraft was just swung around and headed in the direction of the fence and the trees at this stage I doubt any of us "experts" could have or would have done anything but hold on and hope for the best. no airspeed no rudder control hitting a fence your just not going to get back in the air. And I'm not saying fixation in some circumstances is not a factor, just not this one. I'm just sorry the pilot will have to live with this, I do hope he continues on.

[M61A1]

I'm just sorry the pilot will have to live with this, I do hope he continues on.

Yes, I hope it can just be chalked up to experience, learn from it and move on.

[Roundsounds]

Maybe people are overthinking this.If you look at the north end of the strip at Gympie there are plenty of trees. It would be quite likely that it was just a high probability that such an event was going to result in impacting a tree without being fixated.

I doubt fixation had much to do with this accident, he did a 180 degree turn during a go around according to the report.

[Cosmick]

One thing always in the back of my mind. We are taught to use the whole runway and I do in case of mechanical issues. When doing touch and go's you lose that luxury. Especially in a students case maybe touching down further down the runway (Gympie is tarmac and in hot weather). Then operating electric trim etc can take time. By the time you rotate all runway options may be gone.

 

When I purchased an aircraft recently I initially would land, taxi back and utilize the whole runway.