MOGAS or AVGAS - remote area refueling options

[matt walsh]

Dear Alf Col and DownUnder. Thanks for intel on landing options near AS. I'll check Bond Springs as Ularu will costs significantly as I'm staying in AS for 7 days. Security of leaving plane at BS might be an issue. Could try landing at AS and bluff thru administrative issues??

 

Cheers Matt

 

 

[apm]

Matt. Your more likely to reduce life of pump with a 12v battery as volts will always be less than optimum. If the pump was in a vehicle it would be operating at 14v as that is what the alternator is putting out. Pump will have a watt rating but depending on manufacturer may be hard to find. V x A = W .so basically protect the pump with a lower amp fuse when using higher Volts and you will be fine. Pressure will cause pump to pull more amps so size hose large enough to carry flow without backpressure and suction side as short as possible

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Hi Skip,Thanks for your comments on battery size and nozzle implications. I was planning to fit a petrol bowser type nozzle so am relieved I got your Intel regarding potential pump seal damage with sudden pump stoppage. I now understand the purpose of your "switch on a lead". I considered the nozzle to prevent spillage when removing the hose end from the wing tank. I could fit a simple in- line tap which I switch closed AFTER pump ceases and stops flow. This avoid me having to handle the hose carefully as the remaining fuel in the hose will be prevented from discharging. Your thoughts????

 

Can you discharge petrol through copper pipe?? I can bend a goose neck end for the fuel hose to insert and hook in the wing tank,

 

I bought a S/H AeroFlow AF49-1008 pump, its the red series pump.

 

Regarding the switch on a lead, I am a mite concerned about operating a switch within 1-1.5 metre of the filler tank and query whether the switch would be a potential source of ignition. Your thoughts? I could fully encase the switch in resin??

 

Comment on battery size noted and I may investigate a 12V size.

 

Thanks again for your input and wise advise. Regards Matt Walsh

I rarely experience spillage from my delivery hose - not sure why not - will think on it.

 

Copper or aluminium/alloy pipe should not be a problem for your discharge nozzle - I just hold mine into a home made filter funnel. Virtually no chance of spark ignition due to the concentration of fuel vapours/lack of oxygen/air.

 

I checked my pumps (max) delivery rate at ground level by timing its pumping 20 L fuel into a 20 L jerry - repeated several times - disappointingly less than claimed performance but acceptable.

 

I dont see the switch as being a likely ignition point - I usually hold it in my right hand down near my hip, considerable distance from the discharge/fill point. I have used a good quality 12 volt toggle switch,you could use a 12 v weather resistant with a press n/off button for added security.

 

As far as battery size - APM makes a good point. Optimum amps at correct voltage will give best delivery rate, lower motor temperatures. One thing I do regularly and that is check the pump motor for heating. Heat can be a sign of low current supply, overloaded pump, run time. Get used to the sound of your pump - a drop in sound/tone may indicate battery not up to par, suction end blocked (usually pressed against bottom/side container). The most I have pumped,in one session,is about 70-80 litres, motor just got slightly warm.

 

 

[Lucky01]

Electric Liquid Transfer Pump

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=145563413014106

 

 

[coljones]

Electric Liquid Transfer Pumphttps://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=145563413014106

Can it pump from the ground to wing tanks, say 6 feet? Or is a power assisted siphon?

 

 

[Downunder]

Can it pump from the ground to wing tanks, say 6 feet? Or is a power assisted siphon?

Yes, looks like an assisted siphon....

 

How to Operate:

 

Immerse the suction end of the pump into the liquid (ex. Gas Can)Insert the tube into a container to receive the liquid

 

Turn the pump on. Caution: Do Not overfill the container.

 

Avoid pumping liquid to a container higher than the pump's motor housing

 

When finished, keep the pump upright and lift the handle above the pump mechanism to drain any liquid back into the original container.

 

Do Not lay pump down until all liquid has been drained from the tube and pump.

 

Run water through the pump after using it with another liquid.

 

This will rinse the interior and extend the life of the pump.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Yes, looks like an assisted siphon....

 

Avoid pumping liquid to a container higher than the pump's motor housing

 

.

No offence intended BUT what does an "assisted siphon" bring to an ordinary siphon (bit of flexible pipe) other than unnecessary complexity??

 

 

[coljones]

No offence intended BUT what does an "assisted siphon" bring to an ordinary siphon (bit of flexible pipe) other than unnecessary complexity??

You don't have to suck a pipe to get the flow going along with the attendant chance of a mouth full of fuel or lungs full of vapours.

There are other ways of starting a siphon a trip to Bunnings will reveal a range of products.

 

For the purposes of this particular conversation a siphon is a good way to empty a fuel tank rather than filling it.

 

 

[Downunder]

No offence intended BUT what does an "assisted siphon" bring to an ordinary siphon (bit of flexible pipe) other than unnecessary complexity??

Adding to Col's comment, You might be surprised the number of people who have no idea how to siphon or the concept of it.

 

This does it for them.....

 

And on a more humorous note, I know a plumber who had to unblock an overflowing urinal.......

 

....... and yes......he sucked on the tube......

 

 

[robinsm]

Dont forget to use a Mr Funnell or equivalent to sort out water etc in fuel from suspect pumps. Saved me once in the outback....just sayin. (also, MoGas in motors that allow it does not have the lead polution of spark plugs etc that av gas does.

 

 

[robinsm]

Made up a car fuel pump (12v) that plugged into the dash of the aircraft, used it to syphone via a spear into the fuel tank into the aircraft fuel tanks. Plenty of pump to get from ground into wing tanks and it can be unplugged and stored in the luggage area or under the seat etc. Just need a container for the fuel. (collapsible jerrycans are available and it would only be for short periods, not permenent storage.) NB car pumps are sealed and as long as they are earthed, no spark problems. Used mine for a number of years with no problems.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Adding to Col's comment, You might be surprised the number of people who have no idea how to siphon or the concept of it.

This does it for them.....

I guess in this high tech world it stands to reason that someone somewhere thought they could improve on simplicity by adding complexity to meet the needs of those not exposed to the practical side of life ( I have known how to use/make a siphon since I was about 8)

 

 

[facthunter]

The quickest one is a straight length of hose with your hand blocking the exit as you pull it towards you. Release at other times. Nev

 

 

[Thunda]

My two bob's for what it's worth.

 

I have a friend that has an aluminum truck fuel tank obtained from a wrecker, he has an electric 12volt fuel pump and a good quality fuel filter all set up in his ute.

 

Fills up with BP 98 Ultimate at the servo and his Jabba is very happy.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Made up a car fuel pump (12v) that plugged into the dash of the aircraft, used it to syphone via a spear into the fuel tank into the aircraft fuel tanks. Plenty of pump to get from ground into wing tanks and it can be unplugged and stored in the luggage area or under the seat etc. Just need a container for the fuel. (collapsible jerrycans are available and it would only be for short periods, not permenent storage.) NB car pumps are sealed and as long as they are earthed, no spark problems. Used mine for a number of years with no problems.

Some details of pump type, brand, delivery performance & cost would be helpful as would a photo or two.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

My two bob's for what it's worth.I have a friend that has an aluminum truck fuel tank obtained from a wrecker, he has an electric 12volt fuel pump and a good quality fuel filter all set up in his ute.

 

Fills up with BP 98 Ultimate at the servo and his Jabba is very happy.

We seem to be straying quite a way from the original topic(s)

 

 

[robinsm]

yep we are, I suggested carry carnet and credfit card. Worked for me all over NSW etc (including the outback...dont quite get the drift of the discussion. If Avgas aint available, use unleaded premium and carry additive if necessary in the boot.

 

 

[robinsm]

Collapsible jerry can and collapsible suitcase trolley for that walk into town if needed.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Collapsible jerry can and collapsible suitcase trolley for that walk into town if needed.

Hadn't thought of the trolley - to minimise trips and balance the ageing bod, I have 2 x 20L bladers (that will take 25 at a pinch). Trolley up that weight and volume ???

 

 

[facthunter]

You would want big dia wheels. Pushbike? You can't take all this stuff. What are you flying ? A C-130? Nev

 

 

[robinsm]

I only used one jerry can (20lts) and just used a suitcase trolley (5 inch about wheels. Carried it collapsed with my camping gear on the passengers side. Flew an Xair standard. Plenty of room in the cab for a rag and tube.

 

 

 

[robinsm]

Used to carry camping gear, airbed collapsed, cooking gear and fueling stuff etc on the floor and seat on the passenger side (removed the second stick so it would not be interferred with.) Flew all over NSW as far as Camerons corner and Broken hill as well as the north of the state (Inverell and Armidale ) from Goulburn in this configuration. Never had a problem and never over weight.

 

 

[facthunter]

Only one person on board though. Nev

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Only one person on board though. Nev

Yep! D. Rone (ha ha)

 

More seriously - my aircraft is good for 80 kg x 2 (pilot/passenger) full fuel & 20 kg baggage.My wife & I weigh in at 120 kg so we have 40 kg to "play" with subject to W&B considerations. Later iterations of my aircraft have higher certified weight (without design change) so are good for even higher loads.

 

A prudent pilot should be conscious of "weight creep" - the tendency to carry additional "stuff" that might come in useful (bag trolley? ?).

 

Try removing everything not necessary for safe & efficient flight from your cockpit - weigh it - I guarantee you will be surprised at how much "stuff/junk" you are carting around the sky for no good reason, reducing your aircraft performance and increasing fuel consumption.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's not a rusty ute where you just chuck stuff in the back. Unless you need it, don't carry it. Every kilo costs you performance. Nev