Warbirds over Wanaka Runway Collision.

[nathanc]

With respect, I think there is certainly a difference between looking at the rear view mirror. Landing a directionally unstable tailwheel aircraft with a very high landing speed due to a heavy wing loading would require many pilots to keep their head rather still in the cockpit to keep a consistent sight picture. Even shiftting one's gaze from the left hand side visible sliver of runway to the right side sliver of runway is done with caution. It would seem that looking down camera might be useful for taxying slowly but at the high touchdown speed of a heavily wing-loaded aircraft one mightn't even be game to glance down at any cockpit instrument.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

No different to looking at your rear view mirror while you're driving.

Not quite. Try it next time you're reversing; glancing in the mirror doesn't require refocusing, but seeing the image on a reversing screen does.

[Old Koreelah]

Or not.http://i7.tinypic.com/258m33o.jpg

Bugger! Sure hope this aircraft was empty.

[bexrbetter]

Not quite. Try it next time you're reversing; glancing in the mirror doesn't require refocusing, but seeing the image on a reversing screen does.

?? Is that a comment from experience, because I do it everyday.

I didn't like the camera to begin with,but now completely used to glancing at it, and the rear mirrors, and the environment without a problem at all.

 

Bugger! Sure hope this aircraft was empty.

Nope, killed the guy.

The guy in front of the Vans had already pulled off onto the grass, he didn't want to be anywhere near the front of the Warbird.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

?? Is that a comment from experience, because I do it everyday.I didn't like the camera to begin with,but now completely used to glancing at it, and the rear mirrors, and the environment without a problem at all...

Maybe you have younger eyes than me; the reversing camera screen is much closer than the image in the rear view mirror (and not as bright) so it takes a moment to refocus on it. If used as an aid to taxiing, a camera would have the same limitations.

 

 

[kgwilson]

The camera screen on my car is part of the photochromic mirror and I can only focus on 1 part at a time. Initially I didn't like the camera but use it all the time now & don't see anything in the rest of the mirror.

 

 

[w3stie]

Or not.http://i7.tinypic.com/258m33o.jpg

My first solo was in a PA38 at Archerfield and as I waited for clearance to line up, a warbird pulled up behind me . I don’t know what it was, but it looked big. I’m glad I wasn’t aware of that photo at the time!

 

 

[Callahan]

I couldn't agree more KG. Well said. I've flown small (Howard DGA - Beech 18s) and large (DC-3 - C-46) aircraft & never ran into anything for the past 48 years. It is the Pilot's Responsibility to look ahead on final & ascertain any obstacles in the intended path. Long nose like the Yak or stubby nose like the 46.

 

In theory the pilot should have identified that the runway was clear of obstacles on final. By the time he got to the flare stage he could not see a thing in front of him. The Yak 3 has a very low and narrow canopy. The reality though is that at an airshow like Wanaka all sorts of paraphernalia abound near the sides of the runways like Military vehicles, pyrotechnics setup, camera crews, crash vehicles, paramedics etc and so it is likely he thought the cherry picker was further away. He passes several items and people off to the side before impact.

i think it's idiocy that these guys dont fit a forward camera to see whats in front of them on the ground.

[bexrbetter]

I've flown small (Howard DGA - Beech 18s) and large (DC-3 - C-46) aircraft & never ran into anything for the past 48 years..

Oh please Granddad, tell us again about the time you attacked the German machine gun nest armed with just a toothbrush ...

 

 

[Callahan]

Actually Bex I was with Napoleon on the outskirts of Moscow when we're assaulted by a blizzard of monumental proportions along with an all out assault of massed Bolshevik infantry! We had no choice! We had to retreat! Thank you for your interest though. It was a truly terrible ordeal.

 

Look Bex, it wasn't meant as a assault against you personally. It was my opinion & I forgot to include many taildragger crop dusters I've flown such as the AT-802 and Turbine Dromedar, both long nose aircraft in much tighter spaces than he had. Pilot's Responsibility. Bottom line.

 

Granddad? Unfortunately, you'll you'll be one too. Sooner than you think. I hope you survive to make it. From your response, I think your days are limited.

 

Oh please Granddad, tell us again about the time you attacked the German machine gun nest armed with just a toothbrush ...

[dazza 38]

Should have gone to spec savers.

 

 

[Callahan]

Okay, you guys win. Granddad can't compete with you whippersnappers. But I can tell you this. Granddad-ism will be on you before you know it & some younger person will be making fun of you too before you realize it. Someone said: "Life is Short." Yes it is. Incredibly so. But! You have to be smart enough & lucky enough to get there. Many don't.

 

Should have gone to spec savers.

[Deskpilot]

I'm with you Bex. Easy was to be safe.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I posted the funny to Dazza's comments because I thought he was referring to the Yak pilot and not Callahan.

 

I think Bex's idea is fine, but there is no reason to get personal about Callahan's response as he was just stating it may not work with older eyes. I would go one step further and say even younger eyes may not adjust well; there are young people who have poor eyesight and, like everything physiological, even if they don't wear glasses (and don't need to), there will be differences in muscle reaction/strength, etc, which means for some people, there will be a greater impact and need to refocus than others.

 

So, it really comes down to, if it works for you and it will make you safer (and, of course, it is legal), go ahead, install a camera and use it. For those where it would compromise safety, then don't.. Simples.

 

 

[Guest Guest]

I notice there are no gable markers dilineating the perimeter of sealed strip, whereas the grass strip does. Just where does the width of the sealed airstrip finish? However I note there are 'white crosses' not sure how clear they are from the pilots view.Not a good way to start the show, glad no one was injured.

There wouldn't be gable markers on the edge of the sealed strip, the markers shown delineate the flight strip of which the sealed section is a part of it.

 

 

[Litespeed]

I agree the pilot stuffed up but <mod censored> happens even to the best of us. You still should not have solid stuff in the area that can save a stuff up.

 

Remember we plan airfields to account for safety room, when bad things happen. We all condemned putting shopping malls on the edge of airports, why is a lift machine on the edge of the grass runway OK?

 

"Stupid is as stupid does"- Forrest Gump.

 

 

[1958cessna172]

Yak 3 with a Radial??????

P and W R2000

[planesmaker]

Yes but the strip width is wider than the sealed section so how wide is it ?

 

 

[ruffasguts]

I agree the pilot stuffed up but **** happens even to the best of us. You still should not have solid stuff in the area that can save a stuff up.Remember we plan airfields to account for safety room, when bad things happen. We all condemned putting shopping malls on the edge of airports, why is a lift machine on the edge of the grass runway OK?

 

"Stupid is as stupid does"- Forrest Gump.

The aircraft was doing a formation landing therefore the pilot woul have only been looking to his left at the other aircraft only the lead aircraft would be looking forward

 

 

[Guest Guest]

The aircraft was doing a formation landing therefore the pilot woul have only been looking to his left at the other aircraft only the lead aircraft would be looking forward

I didn't see any other a/c in that video clip but if it was a formation Ldg then that still doesn't absolve the pilot from looking where he is going!

 

 

[Callahan]

Jerry,

 

Apologies for dragging things out again but explain to me please, how is a camera's viewfinder in the cockpit going to help anything during a landing like the Yaks?

 

Bex thinks I'm bragging when I speak of my experience but if he doesn't understand my background, he'll think I'm full of s---. Or maybe he'll think that either way.

 

But here's my two cents on the camera idea. On final, a Yak, or Mustang or AT-802 will all have their noses in a slightly downward position allowing easy viewing of the entire length of intended landing area before the flare begins.

 

A camera, to me, would be nothing but a distraction to vision & aircraft operation during a critical time and an additional danger as the eyes have to focus near to far all the way during landing & rollout. Totally unnecessary in my opinion. Sure, an obstacle, such a a vehicle driven by a crazed lunatic could suddenly appear but such is life.

 

But with respect to the camera idea, maybe I'm missing something?....besides a younger age. Don't misinterpret my intentions here as did young Bex. I mean no offense. And no, I don't know it all. I'm just a survivor as are many of the older pilots here.

 

Over & Back by Wild Bill Callahan...on Amazon. You can read about 35 pages for free. No, I'm not trying to sell a book but it'll tell you from whence I came.

 

This has to go into extra innings Aussies. Wait! Grandmaw calling! Nap time.

 

I posted the funny to Dazza's comments because I thought he was referring to the Yak pilot and not Callahan.I think Bex's idea is fine, but there is no reason to get personal about Callahan's response as he was just stating it may not work with older eyes. I would go one step further and say even younger eyes may not adjust well; there are young people who have poor eyesight and, like everything physiological, even if they don't wear glasses (and don't need to), there will be differences in muscle reaction/strength, etc, which means for some people, there will be a greater impact and need to refocus than others.

So, it really comes down to, if it works for you and it will make you safer (and, of course, it is legal), go ahead, install a camera and use it. For those where it would compromise safety, then don't.. Simples.

[johnm]

OK Callahan

 

if you have done all the hours and experience (I'm sure you have) then let no one take that away from you - if you think this site or someone is then that's not fair ........ lots here shirley do welcome your posts and thoughts

 

 

 

[turboplanner]

What you described and someone mentioned, before the flare is the timeto check the whole runway to commit to the runway. Where the camera has some use is after the landing in a busy taxy area.

 

What happened at Wanaka, seems to be a big secret, given the number os specators observing which runway he was originally aiming for.

 

 

[Bryon]

I was at Wanaka and saw the aftermath, not the actual collision, but.....

 

I saw the approach and landing of both Yak 3s and they did break formation and come in one behind the other but slightly apart so as to use all the grass runway width and leave room for each other.

 

My immediate reaction after seeing the results (5 minutes after the event) was to ask the question "Who parked a bloody cherry picker on the edge of the runway?"

 

I can understand the need for good video of the comings and goings, but shirley someone would have seen the possibility of the danger that this presented

 

My second thought was about a Ferris wheel in Australia

 

Cheers

 

Bryon

 

 

[Callahan]

Bryon, Grandad is tagging this to your post but it's not meant to reply to you. This is a shot I did back in the days of "one click you better get it." No rapid fire shutter.

 

Both pilot above & model below did a fantastic job! Better look before the site police take it down.

 

Not bad for old Grandaddy! Maxair was my old one. Drifter Flying Part 2 on YouTube. Photo Below.

 

I was at Wanaka and saw the aftermath, not the actual collision, but.....I saw the approach and landing of both Yak 3s and they did break formation and come in one behind the other but slightly apart so as to use all the grass runway width and leave room for each other.My immediate reaction after seeing the results (5 minutes after the event) was to ask the question "Who parked a bloody cherry picker on the edge of the runway?"

 

I can understand the need for good video of the comings and goings, but shirley someone would have seen the possibility of the danger that this presented

 

My second thought was about a Ferris wheel in Australia

 

Cheers

 

Bryon